Leads
| SS |  |
| S |           |
| A+ |                 |
| A |            |
Subs
| S |       |
| A+ |          |
| A |                      |
Sigh. Didn’t I just do one of these?
The Next Generation of Tank Teams
The Ryuune and Saria based teams that I mentioned last time were added to the leader list at A+. This isn’t a huge surprise, but is this really where they should be ranked? In terms of being able to clear content they can do just about everything, but if that was all that mattered then shouldn’t Lucifer be on the list somewhere? If it’s about consistency, that’s a pretty vague measurement, but I can’t imagine they’re much less consistent than a few of the S-tier leads, especially when skill is factored. I guess they felt that these teams were better than Beelzebub-RSonia — and they are, significantly — so they had to rank them higher, but I personally feel Beelzebub shouldn’t even be on the list anymore. But meh, it’s all just nitpicking. A+ or A doesn’t really matter anymore; the only part of this list that really matters is S.
HKali A+ Lead, S Sub
Once again, no surprise here. As subs, I doubt the Kalis will ever be anything except S since their board change is basically a requirement to run rainbow teams. They really had no choice but to give her an A+ grade as a leader as that’s where LKali and Levi are. I had a bit of a problem with all three of them being ranked A+, but upon further inspection it makes sense. Almost all of the A+ tier have fairly low ATK multipliers when compared to the S tier, the exceptions being ranked A+ because they lack utility.
Liu Bei: The End of an Era
This is a sad day for me, but it was actually a long time coming: Liu Bei has finally lost S-tier sub status. Upon his release, Liu Bei propelled my Verdandi into the endgame, being able to clear everything except Challenge Dungeon Lv10s. With the advent of Juggler-initiated power creep and more difficult content being released, Liu Bei hopped from Verdandi to Bastet teams, but never really was a great fit. Uevo Vishnu was the stake through the heart, being better in almost every way imaginable.
RIP Liu Bei o7
That Dark Bias (Again)
Dark is 45% of the S and SS leads and 34% of the entire leader list. It’s 44% of the S subs and 26% of the entire sub list. Wood had its day in the sun with Liu Bei, but dark has quickly and decisively regained its throne. Meanwhile, water is wondering when it’s turn is coming.
Should Be Upgraded
Ares is simply a beast. He’s the best sub for the best fire leader and is great in dupes. He should definitely be S-tier, swapping places with Cao Cao. If Liu Bei and Kagutsuchi are A+, I see no reason why Cao Cao should still be S-tier.
Did I miss something? Please leave a comment and let me know!
Setsu's PAD Blog 
Tank teams: I agree on RoBeelz probably could have just been removed and been replaced by Saria and Ryune (and their partners) but I feel players are still obsessed with the Ronia and her glory days.
H-Kali: I play Hathor exclusively on jp but I haven’t cleared Kaliseum so my opinion may not matter to you. Personally, Hathor feels amazing to play and if she had 2 TPA like H-Kali does.. that’s how I understand H-Kali is A+.
THE DARK: I agree that other colours need help. It’s sad when my friend asked me (he is a vet starting a new account after losing his) what to play and I honestly replied “It doesn’t matter, you have a farmable S-tier team anyways in Z8”. I main Water and Light lol. Why do I hate myself…
Ares: is definitely S-tier.
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I agree HKali is good; any qualms I have with her are always in the context of her MP cost. The MP Dragons just seem like a better use if you’re looking for a leader. I don’t have much of a problem with her cost as a sub.
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Love these analyses of the JP Tier list.
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Oh I wanted to get your thoughts on this team:
Awoken Yomi, Satsuki, YomiDra, Awoken Haku, Zaerog8, Awoken Yomi. I feel it is the closest analog to your Bastet team (which I adore) with Satsuki being the flex spot.
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You can never go wrong with Satsuki, Haku, Zaerog, X.
X = Dizanami, Summer Pandora, Yomidra, Okuninushi, or More Haku.
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This seems pretty damned strong. I agree with making Satsuki the flex spot.
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Totally agree, Caocao needs to drop a tier, Ares should be S, but rows are undervalued.
Thoughts on Leaders:
Thoria/Ryunna are probably only A+ because of damage, I think they are significantly stronger overall, than most of the A+ list, I can’t think of anything that Lkali can clear that Thoria Can’t, but Thoria can clear many things that Kali can’t.
in leaders, S appears to be reserved for things that can kill anything, if you can’t pull 6m+ fairly consistently and 20m+ when you use a couple actives, you’re likely not hitting S-tier.
Yomidragon struggled a bit with damage while maintaining SBR, picking up that 40% just enabled the sub pool enough.
Anubis doesn’t deserve to be S, 5×4 and 7×6 need their own lists, He’s certainly S on 7×6, but on 6×5 he’s too inconsistent. Also somewhat (admittedly less) true of Zaerog. At least with Zaerog you can use Haku and make it happen, usually.
I don’t think Zaerog or Anubis deserve to be S-tier right now, I think they are overshadowed by YomiDra(utility) and Kite/A.Yomi (damage, consistency). Being overshadowed should push you off the S tier, or Awoken Shiva should still be S :D.
Cloud, Ilm and typhon don’t feel as good as the rest of A+, but they are better than the A list. I’d expect to see a big purging of A pretty soon :-/.
Subs:
The sub list has been moving away from “good for this team” and more towards “strongest in color” by simply looking at awoken skills, active skill, and stats. CaoCao doesn’t have a home outside of Awoken Shiva, but delay + orb change on 8cd is strong, but I believe the delay is overvalued here.
Caocao will drop to A+ soon (should have already).
The sub list doesn’t seem to factor dupes or skill combos at all.
Kali’s are obviously over the top good, Stats, awokens, skills literally top notch in all areas.
Kanna and the other Triple Dongers – required for defense breaking on a lot of teams, excellent utility actives, usually “meh” in multiples.
Damage Shields – required to allow the S rank leaders to survive, while keeping the speed and utility of absurd damage going (Susano should be S,excellent stats, AS and awokens, as well as being optimal on 2 S tier teams, Sakuya and Bastet, and he’s not even on the freaking list!)
So those things being “S” makes sense to me, they are important team roles.
Board Changers – A+ makes sense here, I’m a believer that every team should have one, but the truth is, a lot of dungeons you simply don’t need to change the board you’re not getting poisoned or jammered out, and with more “locks” board changes are lower value, so I accept the A+ or A rank for Norns and Chinese spirits.
TLDR:
Caocao is too high, Anubis and Zaerog lack the consistency to stay in S tier, A.Susano is S quality and somehow isn’t even A list. Saria+Thor / I&I+Ryunne are both powerful and consistent, but lack damage output.
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I agree that the A+ and A leader tiers now need a serious revamp. It’s true that many of the A’s need to be dropped so downgrading some of the A+’s makes more sense. As is, I’m fine with Saria and Ryuune at A+, considering where everything else is on the list.
Susano was actually my next pick for “should be on the list”. Luckily, there’s always plenty of problems with the list to talk about.
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Rows are undervalued for a reason, they demand a ton of orbs. Shiva Dragon only gets away with it because of his haste and unconditional.
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To be fair, Shiva Dragon teams still do pretty good TPA damage which lessens the reliance on always needing rows.
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Liu Bei will have his revenge.. Awoken Liu Bei, 5 TPAs haha
I guess Cao Cao’s delay makes him still a S tier sub?
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The delay may be part of the reason, but I don’t think it’s a very good one.
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Did u buy hkali, setsu? If no, r u going to?
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Nope. Probably not.
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Until you cave in at the last minute to stay hip and cool 😛
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Normally I’d say you’re right, but the threat of Valentine’s Day, or any other special REM really, makes me want to save MP as much as possible.
Nah, you’re still probably right. Only time will tell, though.
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Man, this power creep is getting outta control. I just can’t keep up fast enough. I only have 4 +297 monsters and they’re DQXQ (my first many months ago) ZGL, Verd, and LiuBei. They’ve gotten me far but I hate how they end up on teams like Bastet cause their stats are just too good.
I’m mostly farming plus eggs and leaving them in containers cause I just don’t want to put them in the wrong card. Overpowered carbuncles waiting for a Vishnu or Yomi Dragon…
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I would agree with you that this rate of power creep is out of control. I’m hoping they cool off for a bit. Hopefully the incoming 100 or so creature buffs is a sign they are slowing down; raising the floor instead of the ceiling.
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I don’t think they want to outcreep the MP Dragons for a while, they haven’t shown any signs of overpowering dragons and they have release quite a few things. I’d be happy to see 6 months of split evos, awokens, and general buffs.
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Pretty much exactly how I feel.
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A few complaints about some red dudes:
Horus stays put even though I think he got a very nice upgrade to play with anything. Compare him with Shiva. Yeah, he still can’t stack reds as much, but more than double the top end multiplier and now access to the same prongers should make Horus and Shiva at least on even footing.
Speaking of prongers, I think they low-balled Set’s sub ranking. AS is slow, but it spikes to high heavens without flooding the board like Liu Bei might. Set compares fairly well with Liu Bei and Hino in many ways.
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There are a few reasons Horus still isn’t quite up with Shiva, color dilution as you said, but more specifically it’s the color and active skill requirement.
Horus has a higher multiplier on paper but Shiva reaches similar levels of spike thanks to access to Urd and his +600 ATK/extra TPA from Horus, and he does so with less restrictions.
You could say that a 4 color requirement isn’t demanding but pure combo simply has a higher activation rate. When you add the utility of def break into the mix, the difference is clear.
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I think both of them are possible victims of an inconsistent tier list. The leader list seems to lean too heavily on what is popular and the sub list doesn’t properly weigh the context of the teams the sub is used on. I’d still argue that Shiva is better than Horus for his consistency and tankiness, although I could see an argument where Set is on the same level as Liu Bei or Kagutsuchi.
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Cao Cao in a vacuum is S rank beyond any doubt. 2 SB, skill lock resist, huge attack with each type of offensive awakening, and a delay + orb change; even now there aren’t many subs that pack this much utility and damage. That active skill alone makes or breaks a lot of floors and is what carries the teams he’s on, it’s something to see for yourself.
I would only attribute Cao Cao’s fall from favor with Shiva’s relative drop, as damage and stat multipliers continue to grow at an alarming rate. While I agree A+ would be justified, I just want to clarify that as of now Cao Cao is only limited by his typing and the weaknesses of fire leads other than Shiva Dragon.
The main issue I have with this tier list is that it’s inconsistent with the weight it places on context, that is the ranking of subs based on their applicable leaders. Liu Bei’s drop is a step in the right direction but it needs more than that.
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The whole reason the sub list is garbage is because it has no context. It’s like they don’t even consider the leaders they picked in their own leader list. You’re right on both accounts: Cao Cao is very powerful and that the leaders available to him are his limiting factor. I’d say a rule of thumb for the sub list should be that a sub’s grade can’t be higher than that of the best leader they sub for. The exception would be for subs that are on multiple teams.
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Well I’m just glad to see that Awoken Ama is even on the list, as otherwise I have none of the A/A+/S leaders (except LKali but ehhh) which is just…wow. I seriously have NONE of them?! *looks at box again* yeah I really don’t. How mean of GungHo to do that to me… So many leaders to pick from on that tier list and all I have is Ama really… 1 > 0 I guess.
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Any list on best NA leads? I’m sitting on +eggs and scared to place them… Grrr. I have rsonia maxed and lubu half way there… Considering focusing on Zuoh, Verdandi, LKali, disruptor batman or beelzebub… Ackk or star pets Toth and Sopdet….. Aaaaaaaaaaaahhhhhhhhh!!!
Suggestions?
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There really is no difference between NA or JP. Collab-only monsters don’t really affect the list. Yes, that includes Baggi.
If you want, you can post your PADherder link and I’ll try to help you out with what you should +egg. A quick summary about your play and spending habits would be useful, too.
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https://www.padherder.com/user/mudslide7262003%40yahoo.com/monsters/#31,0,31,2047,268435455,0,,0,0,0,eq,0,0,0,0,;default,0
I don’t spend a lot of money here but upon occasion I will splurge a little. I mostly use LuBu/RSonia or Beelz as a lead with corresponding devil team behind it. Some play with Dark Meta. I am slowly building a Verdandi team and a Light Kali team as well. Also trying to find info online and cleaning out monster box… I am not a collector, but hard to find info on whats ok to sell off.
Thank you Tons! I really appreciate your blog and reference it frequently!
Zenn
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I think RSonia-based teams have a very low ceilings and aren’t worth investing the +eggs in anymore. The team is still decent for farming, though, I just wouldn’t put more +eggs into it until things change. Awoken Loki could change this, though, so I’d probably keep sitting on your eggs until he’s revealed.
Just a quick look at your box, I’d try to take advantage of your two LKalis by prepping for a Ra or Sakuya team. Putting your +eggs on LKali is never a bad thing, especially since have good rainbow leaders. You can start with an LKali team then branch into a Ra or Sakuya team later.
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