Thoughts on the Game8 JP Tier List 11/6/15


Changes from 10/26: Raoh debuts at A+, Yuria debuts at A+; A revamp: Goemon added to A, Scarlet added to A, Volsungr debuts at A
SS 2259 - Sun God, Ra Dragon
S 2253 - Destroyer God, Shiva Dragon2255 - Sea Deity, Neptune Dragon2011 - Awoken Bastet2012 - Awoken Ra2389 - Awoken Sakuya2013 - Awoken Anubis2325 - Awoken Yomi2230 - 気狂いピエロ, Kite2261 - God of the Night, Tsukuyomi Dragon1847 - Maleficent Phantom Dragon King, Zaerog∞
A+ 1954 - Awoken Shiva2445 - 最大の強敵, Raoh1937 - 最強戦士・超ベジット1955 - Awoken Lakshmi2443 - 還爪の青龍契士・Ryuune2393 - Awoken Idunn&Idunna2226 - 制約と誓約, Gon Freecss1747 - Sparkling Goddess of Secrets, Kali2148 - Dawn Sky Sun Dragon Caller, Kanna1951 - Tome-Creating White Phantom Demon, Ilm2447 - 南斗最後の将, Yuria2030 - Cloud & Hardy-Daytona2441 - 裁爪の橙龍契士・Saria2395 - Awoken Thor1901 - 最強装備, Juggler1949 - Lightning Black Dragonbound, Typhon2407 - Mistress of the Old Castle, Kali2360 - Mankind's Strongest Soldier, Levi
A 1947 - Lightning Red Dragonbound, Gadius2006 - Avowed Thief, Ishikawa Goemon2009 - Awoken Horus2206 - Broad-Minded Hell Demon, Scarlet1841 - 大弯の海龍王, Volsungr2080 - Wise and Moral Goddess, Sarasvati2386 - Soul-Judging God of Dark Riches, Osiris1956 - Awoken Parvati2387 - 彩天聖命神・Hathor2324 - Awoken Amaterasu Ohkami1644 - Arbiter of Judgement, Metatron1953 - Enraged Black Phantom Demon, Zuoh


Changes from 10/26: Phoenix Rider A→A+, Summer Urd removed, Famiel debuts at A, Sun Quan removed, Ariel debuts at A, Lumiel debuts at A
S 1738 - Dominating Warrior King, Cao Cao859 - ドスバギィ&バギィネコ2081 - Divine Creator of Order, Vishnu1747 - Sparkling Goddess of Secrets, Kali2148 - Dawn Sky Sun Dragon Caller, Kanna2078 - Blazing Goddess of Power, Kali2150 - Ominous Moon Dragon Caller, Satsuki2407 - Mistress of the Old Castle, Kali2180 - Pacifying Yomi Goddess, Izanami
A+ 2094 - Phoenix Rider Valen1726 - Awoken Hinokagutsuchi2235 - Avenging War Deity, Ares2010 - Awoken Isis2236 - Psychopomp Commerce Deity, Hermes2443 - 還爪の青龍契士・Ryuune1743 - Restrained Dragon Hero, Liu Bei2075 - Awoken Meimei2441 - 裁爪の橙龍契士・Saria1785 - warrior rose, graceful valkyrie2076 - Awoken Haku2290 - Snow-White Beauty, Valkyrie Claire1847 - Maleficent Phantom Dragon King, Zaerog∞2261 - God of the Night, Tsukuyomi Dragon
A 2073 - Awoken Leilan1670 - Norn of the Past, Urd2384 - Ruling Firestorm God, Set2074 - Awoken Karin1733 - Blue Chain Starsea Goddess, Andromeda1674 - Norn of the Future, Skuld2322 - Awoken Orochi2494 - 巡警の星天使・Famiel2390 - Thought Spinner Norn, Verdandi1734 - Green Star Vanquishing Deity, Perseus2146 - Fall Wind Jasper Dragon Caller, Kaede2237 - Moon Flower Huntress, Artemis1373 - Genius Sleeping Dragon, Zhuge Liang2496 - 煌斧の星天使・Ariel1887 - 幸七羽毛・ヘッドロココ2238 - Brilliant Sun Deity, Apollo2324 - Awoken Amaterasu Ohkami1926 - Heaven-Shaking Thunderdragon, Indra2281 - Creator God of Twin Skies, Izanagi2497 - 冥鈴の星天使・Lumiel2292 - Bleak Night Daughter, Pandora1953 - Enraged Black Phantom Demon, Zuoh1736 - Wailing Bleak Night Goddess, Pandora2273 - Deliberate Rebel, Akechi Mitsuhide

The Game8 list.

I didn’t expect the recent changes to shake up the list so much, but I’ve been kind of out of the JP meta lately, instead dedicating my free time to farming the Arena as much as possible. This is a good chance for me to catch up.

No Kenshiro?

2445 - 最大の強敵, Raoh2447 - 南斗最後の将, Yuria
The Fist of the North Star ratings are a bit confusing. All I see are YouTube videos of Yuria destroying the Arena (thank you for continuing to use that godawful BGM, Black Mist), but I can’t find anything on Raoh or Kenshiro. I decided to try my luck with NicoNico, but I quickly found that that site was about as garbage as it’s always been and gave up.

YouTube videos aren’t the end-all when it comes to judging a monster’s power, but I think it’s telling that the usual JP whales who are so eager to show off new teams have barely produced any content on Raoh or Kenshiro. It’s also somewhat confusing that Yuria seems fairly proficient at the Arena — I mean, she did 60 million to LKali in that video without much luck — but only debuted at A+. Well, here’s how I see things:

  • Yuria – She’s obviously the most powerful of the three. The power of 56.25x with rows is undeniable, but that’s not all she has. Her active is powerful, her awakenings are great and her sub selection is amazing. I think A+ is a good way to hedge bets, but if she proves to be a consistent Arena clear, then she should definitely be S.
  • Raoh – I don’t think Raoh is Arena-worthy when paired with himself, but I think he has some potential when paired with Freyr. I don’t think it’ll be as good as Ryuune-I&I or Saria-Thor, but there’s a lot of potential. You can use Urd-Raoh or Leilan-Belial for burst boards and abuse Phoenix Rider’s shield to tank large hits. I guess the main question is how to consistently deal with the Kalis. I probably would’ve put him at A, but I do think he has a lot of potential so I’m curious if he’ll be worthy of this grade. Edit: here’s a video of Raoh-Freyr clearing the arena, thanks to acx for the link!
  • Kenshiro – I’m somewhat surprised Kenshiro was left off — I thought for sure he’d be at least A — so I went back and actually gave him another appraisal. His 45.56x is the same as Horus and his 1.5x RCV boost is the same as Shiva; a pretty nice combination, if you ask me. So I guess what it comes down to is the sub pool. As a rainbow lead that can’t fully utilize Kali due to typing, he just doesn’t bring enough to the table. His horrible active doesn’t help things. More buffs, GungHo?

As with everything, time will tell, but I’d like to hear your input as I’m sure I’m missing things.

Shaking Up the Leader A-Tier

2006 - Avowed Thief, Ishikawa Goemon2206 - Broad-Minded Hell Demon, Scarlet1841 - 大弯の海龍王, Volsungr
Game8 has revamped the way they’re managing the leader A-tier, opting to use the method they do with the sub A-tier where they pick a few of the monsters they think are the best representatives. How they pick them, I don’t know. As a result, our old friend Goemon is back after being off and on again several weeks in a row. My personal pick in Scarlet has been added and I think this tier is fitting. The most interesting addition is Volsungr, though.

At first I was skeptical whether a mere 36x should make it on the list, but looking closer he has some strong points. The heart and orb enhances work very well together, especially if you run a heartbreaker. The heart enhances also serve as a moderate RCV buff, something you wouldn’t necessarily catch when processing his leader skill. He has has access to some nice TPA subs in Famiel and Orochi. His active is hard to make heads or tails of, though, as many of his better subs are also dragons or attackers (DKali, BValk, Orochi), but there seems to be enough sub option and ways to work around it to minimize the impact. In particular you can use it to mitigate orb troll on trash floors that don’t need all your damage, then use something like Famiel for your final burst. I don’t think he’ll make it out of A, but he’s definitely a neat addition to an element that is lacking combo leads and breathes some life into subs that would otherwise hardly ever see use. I really hope GungHo makes more farmable monsters like this.

I guess the question now is why all the Kalis automatically make S, but Volsungr is left off the sub list entirely?

Angel Uevos at A, to No Surprise

2494 - 巡警の星天使・Famiel2496 - 煌斧の星天使・Ariel2497 - 冥鈴の星天使・Lumiel
I’ve said Game8 always falls prey to sexy awakenings and I think this is the case here, too. Just considering their raw power, it’s hard to deny a triple pronger a spot on this list, but context is everything: what leaders are they even good for? Here’s the suggested teams Game8 has for these Angels:

  • Famiel: U&Y, light I&I (what?)
  • Ariel: Athena, XQ
  • Lumiel: Durga, Kite

So out of this list, only Lumiel has a suggested leader on their own leader tier list and I’d say her being a Kite sub is fairly suspect. To further compound the issue, the one Angel they left off the list, Ruel, has two suggested leaders on the list: Zuoh and Bastet. I actually think Ruel is a fine Bastet sub, on the same level as if not just better than Liu Bei. The wood triple TPA log jam (ha) is no reason to leave her off, especially if the others make it. She could’ve easily replaced GZL, whose one role was stolen from him by Courage Machina and Freyja. Luckily, their entire sub list is garbage so none of this is all that consequential.

2500 - 滅尽の大天使・Michael
Also, where’s Michael? Maybe he doesn’t deserve to be on this list since there isn’t an elite wood-row leader, but then Artemis shouldn’t be on it either. Oh yeah, Perseus is on the list, too. Sigh.

Other Sub Movement

2289 - Resting Norn, Urd
I’m confused why Summer Urd was removed from the list, especially if Famiel was the one that bumped her off. She’s still a key Lakshmi sub, but it doesn’t look like Game8 has recognized that fact. Yet Skuld is still on the list. This whole “making room” thing is pretty stupid.

1741 - Soaring Dragon General, Sun Quan
It was inevitable that Sun Quan would be bumped from the list with Awoken Isis stealing much of his thunder. He’s still quite useful for his delay which is one of the few graceful ways of dealing with perseverance.

2094 - Phoenix Rider Valen
To make room for the rest of the Angels, I guess Phoenix Rider was promoted instead of bumped off. Outside of Raoh, I don’t see any other reason he should’ve been promoted after months at A. This also makes me question why Susano still isn’t on the list. Which brings me to:

Should Be Added

2323 - Awoken Susano no Mikoto
Susano is easily an A+ sub. He’s a critical sub for Bastet teams in the endgame and has the awakenings to make it as a regular. He’s so good that he sees some use in off-color combo teams, particularly on rainbow teams to cover wood. He may not be quite as good as Dark Izanami (which is kind of amazing looking at their awakenings, but that cooldown is just that good) and he’s missing a skill bind resist, but he still deserves to be on the list.

Did I miss something? Please leave a comment and let me know!


26 thoughts on “Thoughts on the Game8 JP Tier List 11/6/15

      • Though, to be fair, I think that’s largely im part to the lack of good Green Row subs, I’d be interested to see if he spawns some gon row teams.


        • Given equal sub quality, TPAs would see more use since they are easier to use and more orb-efficient, for farming in particular. I would love to see some Gon row teams, though. Some hastes would be a nice addition as the only row sub I can think of that has one is the CyberDragon.


  1. It’s weird that Famiel is on the sub tier list considering how she was “tailormade” for U&Y and he’s not on there. I guess it’s just because she has now joined BOdin as one of the elite few triple TPA cards which makes everyone jump all over her.

    I personally am investing in a team for her (Famiel / Gabriel / SQ / Hatsume / Starling / Famiel) because she is quite powerful (she’s basically a better water LMetatron at the very least) and I find it fun, but I don’t understand how she’s on the Game8 tierlist at all considering cards are usually judged on how well they can clear endgame stuff, and Famiel doesn’t really have a use there. I guess I can sort of understand Ariel and Lumiel though.

    It’s sad to see Sun Quan go (and right as I pull him from the REM, seriously, I just got him a week ago!) but Awoken Isis is the new and improved and undoubtedly Sun Quan will still always have his little niche for those who don’t have Isis and for some other healer-focused builds as well, not that those have too much super-late-end-end game potential either :V

    I’m interested in what GH will do with Raphael and Lucifer in terms of uuevoes because they’re such weird cards compared to the rest of the pantheon, particularly Lucifer and his nuke. I wouldn’t be surprised if 4 autoheals on all of the uuevos appeared as a consistency thing though. I’ll just sit here hoping they give Lucifer 4 dongers just because why not, it’d be hilarious if they actually did that because he’d be useful and useless at the same time.

    If I could do any of the rogue level 1 descends then I’d love to invest in a team for Volsungr. He is such an amazing leader in my eyes, and would really help me practice my comboing skills, plus he’d resurrect my Awoken Orochi from box trophy status. Covering fire himself sure makes things easier too. Oh if only I could. I’d love myself a Bastet, I have GZL, Meimei, Freyja, Perseus, Astaroth, Leeza….and no Bastet to lead them 😦


  2. Is there a clear and concise list of criteria that they use to determine these rankings or is it more of a mysterious black box that spits out rankings?


    • As there’s no real objective way to rate leaders, I wouldn’t say it’s concise, but they do have criteria listed. A poor translation would be: (1) How big your multipliers are, ATK in particular, (2) how useful your active is considering the cooldown and (3) how good your awakenings are.

      The sub list uses 2 and 3, but additionally has: (4) the amount of weighted stats and (5) how unique the abilities are, particularly of the active.

      Not exactly science, as one would expect from any PAD tier list.

      How they pick the monsters for their A-tiers likely uses the same criteria, but is more of a mystery since they seem to be set on keeping a set number of monsters in the tier regardless of how good other options may be.


      • Interesting. In the abstract their approach seems reasonable but as you so often point out they seem to leave obviously capable cards off the list or fail to remove cards that have passed their sell by date.

        It might be fun to plot card rankings on a chart over time showing their ‘rise and fall’ as various changes to pad meta have taken place. Maybe it would reveal some commonalities that would help explain the inclusion or exclusion of various cards. (Your definition of fun may vary!)


  3. Perseus is there more for utility with 2SBR/potential bind clear while Artemis is a cute girl and therefore viable on all teams.

    I’m still wondering whether DIza or Valen would be better for fire teams. I feel like the raw HP and resists on DIza make her more valuable in any situation where you need damage reduction. (Also a versatile card in general that doesn’t require Flampy’s in NA)


    • Valen is better on A.shiva, Izanami is better on Shivadragon.

      Valen’s double TPA makes him pretty darn good on Aweoken shiva. Valen is a better card for fire teams in general. However he lacks god typing, which makes him infinitely worse than Izanami on Shivadragon.


    • Thank you for telling me what Perseus does. I’m saying, in context of the meta, there’s little use for him since SBRs, even 2x SBRs, aren’t exactly rare nowadays. He definitely doesn’t deserve to be an A-tier sub given the other options. Still good, sure, but relatively poor. Which is all that matters for tier lists.


      • To be fair, the way you phrased it made it sound like you were against it based on wood rows, even though you’ve made a case against him in past posts.

        I think we can all agree the justification for Perseus as a sub compared to other Heroes is pretty weak now with the addition of so many strong wood subs.


  4. The sub list is a mess, I don’t think the A’s are even worth discussing. A’s under leaders at least make sense, the sub list is more like a waiting room with very misleading parallels.


    • I don’t think it’s so much the type, but the element. Satsuki is better than just about any fire sub in the game and also happens to be an attacker. But yeah, I’m not sold on the Game8 ratings for the FotNS golds yet.


  5. “This whole “making room” thing is pretty stupid.”

    Sums up my opinion of the list pretty well 😛

    Glad that Vol made it! Biggest question: Can buffs overwrite the debuffs? Can’t seem to find an answer either way…


  6. This might sound dumb but what if you use a Brave Blade in a Volsungr team? they are on a shorter cooldown than Volsungr active and they override Volsungr Debuff to attackers and further boost both Volsungr damage, might sound niche though but sounds nice nevertheless.


  7. Hey Setsu, do you have a collab analysis on Fist of the North Star, and do you know when it’s going to come to NA again? All of the gold eggs seem like fantastic rolls, and the silvers aren’t so bad either. I’m planning on rolling a few times, hopefully I get a Yuria, Kenshiro, or Raoh!


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