Thoughts on the Game8 JP Tier List 12/29/15

Leads

Changes from 12/24: Archdemon Lucifer debuts at A+, Levi A+→A, New Year’s Horus debuts at A, Goemon removed, Eschamali removed
SS 2259 - Sun God, Ra Dragon2261 - God of the Night, Tsukuyomi Dragon
S 2253 - Destroyer God, Shiva Dragon2255 - Sea Deity, Neptune Dragon2012 - Awoken Ra2389 - Awoken Sakuya2013 - Awoken Anubis
A+ 1954 - Awoken Shiva2445 - 最大の強敵, Raoh1955 - Awoken Lakshmi2566 - 隔世の蒼龍喚士・Sonia2443 - 還爪の青龍契士・Ryuune2393 - Awoken Idunn&Idunna2011 - Awoken Bastet1956 - Awoken Parvati2505 - Awoken Astaroth2465 - Ushio & Tora2447 - 南斗最後の将, Yuria2441 - 裁爪の橙龍契士・Saria2395 - Awoken Thor2325 - Awoken Yomi2230 - 気狂いピエロ, Kite2507 - Awoken Archdemon Lucifer
A 2537 - 夢招福神, Horus1937 - 最強戦士・超ベジット2080 - Wise and Moral Goddess, Sarasvati2386 - Soul-Judging God of Dark Riches, Osiris2226 - 制約と誓約, Gon Freecss1843 - 玻璃の風龍王, Rinshia2324 - Awoken Amaterasu Ohkami2387 - 彩天聖命神・Hathor1949 - Lightning Black Dragonbound, Typhon1644 - Arbiter of Judgement, Metatron1847 - Maleficent Phantom Dragon King, Zaerog∞2360 - Mankind's Strongest Soldier, Levi

Subs

Changes from 12/24: Vishnu S→A+, Head Rococo S→A+, HKali S→A+, DMeta added to A
S 1738 - Dominating Warrior King, Cao Cao2511 - Mistress of the Sanctuary, Kali2010 - Awoken Isis1747 - Sparkling Goddess of Secrets, Kali2078 - Blazing Goddess of Power, Kali2180 - Pacifying Yomi Goddess, Izanami2282 - Placating Founder, Okuninushi2150 - Ominous Moon Dragon Caller, Satsuki
A+ 2094 - Phoenix Rider Valen2514 - Lively Banquet Dragon Hero, Liu Bei2235 - Avenging War Deity, Ares859 - ドスバギィ&バギィネコ2236 - Psychopomp Commerce Deity, Hermes2443 - 還爪の青龍契士・Ryuune1743 - Restrained Dragon Hero, Liu Bei2075 - Awoken Meimei2081 - Divine Creator of Order, Vishnu2509 - 伐爪の緑龍契士, Sylvie2441 - 裁爪の橙龍契士・Saria1887 - 幸七羽毛・ヘッドロココ1785 - warrior rose, graceful valkyrie2148 - Dawn Sky Sun Dragon Caller, Kanna2076 - Awoken Haku2290 - Snow-White Beauty, Valkyrie Claire1847 - Maleficent Phantom Dragon King, Zaerog∞2407 - Mistress of the Old Castle, Kali2261 - God of the Night, Tsukuyomi Dragon2592 - 裁秤の鋼星神・Eschamali
A 2265 - Fierce Warrior, Sanada Yukimura2073 - Awoken Leilan2384 - Ruling Firestorm God, Set1726 - Awoken Hinokagutsuchi2074 - Awoken Karin1733 - Blue Chain Starsea Goddess, Andromeda2322 - Awoken Orochi2494 - 巡警の星天使・Famiel2566 - 隔世の蒼龍喚士・Sonia2390 - Thought Spinner Norn, Verdandi2146 - Fall Wind Jasper Dragon Caller, Kaede2505 - Awoken Astaroth2237 - Moon Flower Huntress, Artemis2567 - 宿世の翠龍喚士・Sonia1951 - Tome-Creating White Phantom Demon, Ilm2496 - 煌斧の星天使・Ariel2324 - Awoken Amaterasu Ohkami1926 - Heaven-Shaking Thunderdragon, Indra2281 - Creator God of Twin Skies, Izanagi1644 - Arbiter of Judgement, Metatron2292 - Bleak Night Daughter, Pandora1953 - Enraged Black Phantom Demon, Zuoh1736 - Wailing Bleak Night Goddess, Pandora2273 - Deliberate Rebel, Akechi Mitsuhide

The Game8 list

No comments this time, just documenting the changes. I’ll gladly respond to any comments, though.

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26 thoughts on “Thoughts on the Game8 JP Tier List 12/29/15

  1. Huh, surprised that Lucifer made it to A+. I was expecting A. I wonder if they’ll buff his leader skill to x1.5 HP/RCV like they did with Astaroth, but given his much larger sub pool of some really powerful cards I doubt it. Wonder why he isn’t unbindable either…

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    • I think that Awoken luci is so strong he doesnt need the bind resist. He has a 1.8/16/1.8 multiplier, which is really really good damage for tank teams (1.8 hp is good enough to tank most things). If you really need unbind, u can use yomi dragon/ holloween alraune (A. Luci makes up for the loss of rows/ skill boosts), and Luci has way too strong subs: D meta, Pandora, Akechi, Loki, Beach Valk.D/D haku.
      Hes the arena tank lead that dark was waiting on. Albiet, he doesnt have the best way to deal with kali hp nuke, but Mecha hera is pretty good, D/D hades is usable, and A hades (though dealling 6 million is a bit iffy) is also useable. If your fine without rows, then there is Zues straitios, Hera, and all that other stuff.

      Liked by 1 person

      • My gripe was totally my bad! When I read the leader skill I didn’t read it thoroughly and assumed it was just HP and RCV that had the multiplier! I apologize.

        I also forgot how good x1.35 is hahaha. If Nut and Osiris and Hathor are anything to go by, this is gonna be really fun. I sure wish I had a better dark box, the only subs I really have to play with are Panda, Persephone, Vritra, and Durga LOL. I would love to have something like DMeta, DValk, or Haku.

        My new opinion is that FA Lucifer rocks! His only real weakness being binds but even then it’s more specifically leader binds, for which you could use something like Sleeping Beauty, Panda, or even Halloween Drawn Joker.

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  2. Izanami links to Okuninushi’s PADX in the sub list.

    And is a single skill bind resist enough to put DMeta on the Sub list? Her stats don’t really beat out farmable Izanami by a huge margin and her active is a decidedly worse shield.

    I would have assumed the announcement of Awoken FA Lucifer would pushed her even further down the Sub list not add her to A. Am I missing something?

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    • yes, 2 rows, 3 skill boosts, and the offensive portion of her active (enhance) are all very relevant differences. Also, actually having natural RCV doesn’t suck. I would say, generally, that generally izanami is better, but with the SBR she’s certainly a viable sub.

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    • You have to remember that the bar to make it into the A-tier isn’t particularly high. Despite that, I do think DMeta is a good addition since she does so many different things well out of a single sub slot: shield, orb enhance, 3 rows, 3 skill boosts, unbindable, and now SBR. It’s similar to how Isis is good because of the same thing (although it’s her elements for rainbow teams that really put her over the top).

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    • I agree, especially since Satsuki isn’t a sub for an S-tier leader. I’ve wanted Haku to be in S for a while now and I’d also lean towards putting Eschamali there too. Game8 does seem to have a hard-on for triple prongs, though, which may explain why she’s still up there; it also took them forever to lower Liu Bei. However, that extra damage may be a bit more relevant now for people that want to clear the coop dungeons solo.

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      • I think it’s because Satsuki can kind of fit in anywhere, shove her in any Dark or Attacker teams and that HP and ATK with 3 TPAs, Orb Change and SBR will do the rest. Look at Liu Bei’s position in the list, you yourself have said that Vishnu is pretty much better at being Liu Bei than Liu Bei is (aside from Verdandi teams which arent even on the leader list anymore either) yet they are equal at A+. Is Satsuki the optimal sub anywhere? I don’t know, she’s an easy fit on DMeta as a low orb cost solution to trash floors. But she is the optimal filler-sub until you get the right one.

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  3. I’d say it’s an endgame list informed by high end ‘wants’ rather than ‘bests’

    Honestly, I’d recommend you put together a monthly (because of the effort) tier list to counter these lists. After all, who the hell is Game8 and why do they get to be the only authority, you play end-game and have loads of experience and access to different teams and can bring plenty of personal experience to the table.

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    • The point of these posts is to get a feel for the JP meta of which the Game8 list is a reasonable representative for. Of course, it doesn’t tell the whole story, but it’s still valuable to glean some insight from.

      As for making my own tier list, it isn’t worth the time or headache. On top of tier lists being of dubious value, NA isn’t particularly receptive to tier lists making the effort even more futile.

      Liked by 1 person

  4. Thoughts:

    Luci at A+ is pretty good. From what I’ve heard, he’s REALLY good at arena. Like, E2’s tanking, but on a Hero team’s spike damage. Gives me high hopes for the eventual Hero awoken forms, but that’s a long while away.

    Levi down a tier makes sense, what with a significantly better tank-ish leader stepping in. He’s still pretty good, but too few subs to validate him as A+. IMO at least.

    NYHorus makes sense on the list. 9x is pretty dang potent, and it says a lot for powercreep that he’s only at A. Granted, A+ and above generally have some ability to stall, even a 1.5x rvc tacked onto a LS makes a HUGE difference in healing back up, so if he stays at A (HA!) or gets kicked, it’s not that big a debacle IMO.

    Goemon out is the running gag.

    Eschmaldi (?) out makes sense as well. Same LS as Yomidra… but without the subs, active, or awakenings to back it up. (The active is GREAT, but a double orb change is VERY different from a spawn 4 dark and 4 hearts.) The lack of good Machine subs is the biggest nail in the coffin. Though, as Mecha Hera has shown, powerful machines are becoming a thing now, so once we get enough to build a team out of them, the third round of MP dragons will have come, and blown literally everything else out of the water. So yeah, the boot is fine IMO. Helluva sub though.

    Vishnu is a little surprising. Though, no S tier wood leaders, and GH is pushing wood rows now. So, kinda makes sense I suppose. I’ll give them a pass on this one.

    Rococo… I never really understood what made his S tier to begin with? So demotion is… OK I guess? Still not 100% sure he’s even A tier… what team actually uses him? Like, at all???

    HKali makes sense as well. She’s off color for any team that would use her, minus Horus, who isn’t even on the list. If NYHorus takes off, she may get bumped back up, but short of that, my hopes are relatively low for her. Her active is still just as OP though, so I think she’ll stick around at A+ for a good while yet.

    DMeta is an interesting, but well-deserved addition. A tier is basically worthless, but she’s such a strong, and versatile sub, and leader, that I’m surprised that she’s only now being added. Hope she sticks around, but A tier is crazy, so we shall see…

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  5. People should be reminded that cards being removed from the tier list don’t make them any worse (actually, if you click the individual cards their ratings from 1-10 stay the same), they’re just making room for newer and more popular additions. (i.e. Levi or HKali and any other tanky dark leads gets consolidated).

    That’s, for example, why I think Hathor’s still there despite being a bit outclassed (as a Hathor main in jp, I cry). She’s the only tanky (rainbow) light lead.

    I just hope no one gets salty because their fav leads got removed or bumped by something new and exciting.

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    • whats the point of a tier list if you don’t get salty that someone else has a different opinion of how good your leaders are?

      Seriously though, I pretty much only like the list because it makes me look at things I might have overlooked, or initially underestimated, furthers game knowledge and all that. I don’t believe the list, but it’s a good list of things to look at, and determine if they are actually good enough.

      I watched a lot of zaerog, and decided he wasn’t good enough, because he was too orb greedy, for instance.

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  6. With the release of NY Horus as A on the JP Tier List, I would like your opinion for my personal box and whether I should save stones for the machine (when it eventually comes to NA) or to blow it on a godfest.

    My friends have told me to roll for Horus, Shiva, or NY Horus, but I’m not really sure which leader could take me the furthest. Thanks! P.S. I’m currently running a Set team.

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    • I’d agree with your friends that Shiva is the lead that best fits your box. However, I have a few problems with their advice:
      – It’s a pretty big assumption that we’ll get New Year’s Horus. Some people are speculating we’ll get it for the Lunar New Year, but that’s a pretty big stretch. If we get coop — the presumed reason we didn’t get it — before February I’d entertain the thought a bit more.
      – Even if we do get it, it’s definitely not worth it to roll just for Horus, especially when you’re just starting out. Special REMs are generally horrible and this one is particularly bad.
      – Rolling for a specific lead can lead to an inefficient use of stones. You should really try to roll in a godfest that maximizes overall value, seeing what you get, then going from there. Aiming for a particular roll will likely end in disappointment, especially if the rest of the rolls were garbage.
      – I’m skeptical that Horus is even good for you since you have no Kalis. New Year’s Horus is probably even worse. Shiva is quite good for you though.

      For now, Set is a pretty solid leader. RSonia can also get you pretty far, pairing with Lu Bus and Beelzebubs the more your progress. At your rank I wouldn’t try pressing for a specific lead. A godfest with Shiva certainly makes things more attractive, but I’d still make sure you’re getting sufficient overall value before using your stones.

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  7. I’m wondering what your opinion is on YomiDra vs RaDra? I got a 2nd DKali today so I can make the ‘ideal’ RaDra team. But I already pretty much have an ideal YomiDra team (I plan on getting a 2nd YomiDra once I get enough Badpy for it). The both seem pretty close in strength but do you think there are things that RaDra handles way better than YomiDra?

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    • Lucky~, wish i had A dkali (18 lkalis and counting). As for Yomidra vs Radra (im not setsu, but i want to answer this question.) Yomi Dragon is good because (s)he is easy to proc the leader for a decent 36x multiplier, you are basically invunlerable to binds due to the awakenings of yomidra. and its very easy to heal up because of yomidra’s active. The problem with Yomi Dragon is that the ideal team in NA (YomiDra. YomiDra, Oku, D.Zues, A.Haku. YomiDra) you basically have to go all in on dark resist (at least 27 with a hypermaxed set up) Though this will change with Echamali arriving (to 26 with the super fast team). So you basically cant tank anything else, also known as Parvati nuke, (but you have oku so you can clear her with prongs and delay her before you get nuked) Did i mention its the fastest arena team?

      Ra Dragon is good because of that ridiculously high multiplier (144x and has 2 prongs, only second to Anubis) and you dont need a gravity on your team to deal with kali nuke (just indra lol). That means you have a lot of tankability because your running indra and isis, meaning you can get a 15% shield or 75% shield if needed. and also you dont need all those dark latents (which arent farmable in NA yet ). You also dont have to worry about bringing something to too low of an hp because you can basically kill anything (that isnt kali) in 1 shot. However, you can get sky fall trolled on Sopdet, parvati, kagu, And it is pretty hard matching all 6 colors when you dont have a d kali up (i dont have ra dragon, but i have used L/L ra before kalis came out, so i know what im talking about)

      TLDR: Ra dragon handles MOST things SLIGHTLY better due to more burst but these floors: Kagutsuchi, Sopdet, Parvati, Osiris (not the floor itself, but the effect of getting Osiris), Hera Ur (same as Osiris), Kaguya , and DQ Hera Preemptive (yomi dra just has to get to full hp, ra drag needs shield up)

      Yomi dragon has especially worse times on: D-iza (the time reduction sucks), Zhou Yu (less damage means you have to sit through a lot of torture),A. Meimei (more than 2 mill per monster) and Grizar.

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    • Ra Dragon is the best Arena team currently. Yomi Dragon is great too, but it’s hard to say you have the ideal team until Eschamali comes out. Without her, the Yomi Dragon team doesn’t do quite enough damage to faceroll the Arena like Ra Dragon.

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