JP Aggregate Leader List: Trial Week 4

JP Aggregate Leader List β

Changes from last time: Shiva Dragon 1➞2, Neptune Dragon 1➞2, Raoh 3➞2, Freyr 3➞2, Rukia ❀➞2, Shiva 3➞❀, Gon 3➞❀, Ilm 3➞❀, Juggler 3➞❀, Levi 3➞❀, Yamato Takeru removed from ❀, Goemon removed from ❀, Vegito removed from ❀, Scarlet removed from ❀, Andromeda removed from ❀, Osiris removed from ❀, Perseus removed from ❀, LKali removed from ❀, Fenrir removed from ❀, Pandora removed from ❀
Legend: Popular on Pad-Plus, ❀: Honorable Mention Tier
1
2259 - Sun God, Ra Dragon
2261 - God of the Night, Tsukuyomi Dragon
2
2253 - Destroyer God, Shiva Dragon
2445 - The Greatest Enemy, Raoh
2392 - Awoken Freyr
2679 - 十三番隊隊士・Kuchiki Rukia
2255 - Sea Deity, Neptune Dragon
2662 - Awoken Pandora
2507 - Awoken Archdemon Lucifer
3
2443 - Returning-Claw Blue Dragonbound, Ryune
2393 - Awoken Idunn&Idunna
2566 - Ancestral Blue Dragon Caller, Sonia
2011 - Awoken Bastet
2505 - Awoken Astaroth
2012 - Awoken Ra
2441 - Judging-Claw Orange Dragonbound, Saria
2395 - Awoken Thor
2465 - Ushio & Tora
2389 - Awoken Sakuya
2013 - Awoken Anubis
2325 - Awoken Yomi
2230 - 気狂いピエロ, Kite
1954 - Awoken Shiva
2537 - Year's First Dream God of Luck, Horus
2602 - 最高の男・Bouya Harumichi
2744 - 忘我の赤龍契士・Gadius
2009 - Awoken Horus
2511 - Mistress of the Sanctuary, Kali
2604 - 鈴蘭最強の男・Hayashida Megumi
1955 - Awoken Lakshmi
2226 - 制約と誓約, Gon Freecss
1956 - Awoken Parvati
2509 - Cutting-Claw Green Dragonbound, Sylvie
2394 - Awoken Freyja
2594 - 抗神機, Ragnarok Dragon
1951 - Tome-Creating White Phantom Demon, Ilm
2534 - Crimson Sun Longevity Dragon Caller, Kanna
2533 - Excursion Dancing Goddess, Amaterasu Ohkami
2324 - Awoken Amaterasu Ohkami
2030 - Cloud & Hardy-Daytona
2148 - Dawn Sky Sun Dragon Caller, Kanna
2447 - Last Nanto General, Yuria
2660 - Fervent Monkey King, Sun Wukong
1901 - 最強装備, Juggler
1644 - Arbiter of Judgement, Metatron
1847 - Maleficent Phantom Dragon King, Zaerog∞
2745 - 滅法の黒龍契士・Typhon
2407 - Mistress of the Old Castle, Kali
2592 - Judging Scale Steel Star Goddess, Eschamali
2737 - 最果ての龍喚士・Sonia Gran Reverse
2360 - Mankind's Strongest Soldier, Levi
2677 - 虚化・Kurosaki Ichigo

I’m releasing the list a bit early this week since I found some free time today that I may not have on Monday.

Both GameWith and AppMedia made significant changes to their lists this week which really shook up the aggregate list. AppMedia decided to be extra annoying by slightly redoing their tier structure and page layout. Since I had to make changes to the aggregation script to accomodate, I decided to add some slight scoring tweaks to hopefully improve the score normalization between the different lists. As always, I want to avoid being results-oriented, but I’m pretty happy with the list this week.

JP Aggregate Leader List β Changes of Note

Card Notes
2253 - Destroyer God, Shiva Dragon
Change: 1➞2

AppMedia downgraded both Shiva and Neptune Dragons. Most would agree with Shiva, but I’m sure there are those that would argue against Neptune.

2445 - The Greatest Enemy, Raoh
Change: 3➞2

Both GameWith and AppMedia upgraded Raoh in the same week, so I’m wondering if there’s something I’m missing. The only recent change I’m aware of is uuevo Yamato (who is both a good sub and leader pair) which is nice, but that can’t be the only thing. There’s a lot of videos using him to farm Jormungand, but I doubt that’s it, either. If anyone has any clue, please let me know!

In my opinion, Raoh is the best collab leader in the game — although the Bleach Collab puts that assertion to the test — and one of my personal favorites so I’m glad he’s getting some love. I’m not sure if he’s quite at the level of the MP Dragons, but he’s about as close as it gets.

2392 - Awoken Freyr
Change: 3➞2

Apparently Freyr also comes along for the ride. The other Norse leader pairs make sense to be tied together so closely, but Raoh is so much better than the Dragonbounds outside the Norse pairing that I’m not sure packaging him with Freyr is correct. A Raoh pair is amazing for non-Arena content and Scarlet and Yamato are other capable leader pairs; Freyr is just another tool at Raoh’s dispsoal, not a critical component.

2679 - 十三番隊隊士・Kuchiki Rukia
Change: ❀➞2

Rukia was finally graded by both GameWith and AppMedia, leading to her promotion. I’m fine with where she settled. Now we wait for Ichigo to be graded by GameWith (or I update the scoring algorithm to compensate).

1954 - Awoken Shiva
Change: 3➞❀

Shiva joins Lakshmi and Parvati in being omitted from GameWith’s list, leading to his demotion to the honorable mention tier.

1901 - 最強装備, Juggler
Change: 3➞❀

The tier lists took one step closer to putting this cancer in the rear-view mirror. inb4 uevo with 1.5x to team stats, SBR, three rows and god killer (because why not).

2657 - Heroic God-Emperor, Yamato Takeru
Change: Removed from ❀

I argued that AppMedia’s ratings of the uuevo Heroes was a bit ambitious, but leaving them off their entire list is somewhat surprising. They could’ve easily been put lower on their A-tier or even B-tier. Considering Wukong is still at A and Summer Pandora is still in their B-tier, this can only be an oversight by the maintainer; they probably wanted to downgrade them, but forgot to put them back on the list altogether. Even minor misses like this really lower a list’s credibility, so if you weren’t already taking these ratings with a grain of salt, now you have an actual reason to do so.

2641 - 神仇の魔狼・Fenrir
Change: Removed from ❀

Fenrir was removed because I omitted the AppMedia A- tier from the aggregation. Judging from videos demonstrating his new leader skill, I don’t expect him to return. It’s almost humorous how much work you have to do and RNG you have to work around to get barely any damage in return.


Jump to: Game8 | GameWith | AppMedia | Pad-Plus


Game8

Legend: Popular on Pad-Plus
Original source
SS
2259 - Sun God, Ra Dragon
2261 - God of the Night, Tsukuyomi Dragon
S
2253 - Destroyer God, Shiva Dragon
2255 - Sea Deity, Neptune Dragon
2507 - Awoken Archdemon Lucifer
2662 - Awoken Pandora
A+
1954 - Awoken Shiva
2445 - The Greatest Enemy, Raoh
2679 - 十三番隊隊士・Kuchiki Rukia
2443 - Returning-Claw Blue Dragonbound, Ryune
2566 - Ancestral Blue Dragon Caller, Sonia
2011 - Awoken Bastet
2505 - Awoken Astaroth
2012 - Awoken Ra
2465 - Ushio & Tora
2389 - Awoken Sakuya
2441 - Judging-Claw Orange Dragonbound, Saria
2013 - Awoken Anubis
2745 - 滅法の黒龍契士・Typhon
2325 - Awoken Yomi
2230 - 気狂いピエロ, Kite
2677 - 虚化・Kurosaki Ichigo
A
1644 - Arbiter of Judgement, Metatron
1951 - Tome-Creating White Phantom Demon, Ilm
1955 - Awoken Lakshmi
1956 - Awoken Parvati
2148 - Dawn Sky Sun Dragon Caller, Kanna
2226 - 制約と誓約, Gon Freecss
2324 - Awoken Amaterasu Ohkami
2360 - Mankind's Strongest Soldier, Levi
1901 - 最強装備, Juggler
2407 - Mistress of the Old Castle, Kali
2447 - Last Nanto General, Yuria
2511 - Mistress of the Sanctuary, Kali
2592 - Judging Scale Steel Star Goddess, Eschamali
2537 - Year's First Dream God of Luck, Horus
2533 - Excursion Dancing Goddess, Amaterasu Ohkami
2534 - Crimson Sun Longevity Dragon Caller, Kanna
2604 - 鈴蘭最強の男・Hayashida Megumi
2602 - 最高の男・Bouya Harumichi
2744 - 忘我の赤龍契士・Gadius

No changes.


Jump to: Game8 | GameWith | AppMedia | Pad-Plus


GameWith

Changes from last time: Raoh A➞S, Rukia added to A, Yuria removed from A, Ra A➞B, Yomi A➞B, Kite A➞B, Sakuya A➞B, Ilm A➞B, Ushio & Tora A➞B, Bastet A➞B, Sylvie A➞B, Vegito removed from B, Shiva removed from B, Zaerog∞ removed from B, Goemon removed from B, Gon removed from B, Juggler removed from B, Scarlet removed from B, Awoken Horus removed from B, Typhon removed from B, Levi removed from B, Kanna removed from B
Legend: Popular on Pad-Plus
Original source
SS
2259 - Sun God, Ra Dragon
S
2253 - Destroyer God, Shiva Dragon
2445 - The Greatest Enemy, Raoh
2255 - Sea Deity, Neptune Dragon
2261 - God of the Night, Tsukuyomi Dragon
A
2566 - Ancestral Blue Dragon Caller, Sonia
2443 - Returning-Claw Blue Dragonbound, Ryune
2679 - 十三番隊隊士・Kuchiki Rukia
2505 - Awoken Astaroth
2441 - Judging-Claw Orange Dragonbound, Saria
2030 - Cloud & Hardy-Daytona
2013 - Awoken Anubis
2507 - Awoken Archdemon Lucifer
2662 - Awoken Pandora
B
2011 - Awoken Bastet
2509 - Cutting-Claw Green Dragonbound, Sylvie
2012 - Awoken Ra
2389 - Awoken Sakuya
2465 - Ushio & Tora
1951 - Tome-Creating White Phantom Demon, Ilm
2230 - 気狂いピエロ, Kite
2325 - Awoken Yomi

The most glaring omission is Ichigo which is preventing the aggregate list from putting him anywhere except the honorable mention tier. This is obviously a huge weakness of the current algorithm and I’m thinking of steps to rectify it. Anyways, Ichigo is still in their holding tank (along with the newly added Zeus Dragon). I’m not sure why Ichigo would take much more time to evaluate than Rukia.

GameWith Changes of Note

Card Notes
2445 - The Greatest Enemy, Raoh
Change: A➞S

I respect GameWith’s list for being deliberate with their grades and having a concise, clean list. However, their upgrade of Raoh really stands out. That’s not to say they’re wrong, but when you consider that other top-tier leaders are rated lower — namely Lucifer and Pandora — you can’t help but question why they think he’s better. There are quite a few anomalies in their list and I think they’re going to have to revamp it eventually.

2447 - Last Nanto General, Yuria
Change: Removed from A

I feel a little vindicated about comparing Yuria and Typhon last week, but I’m not entirely sure both should be omitted from the list.

2012 - Awoken Ra
Change: A➞B

I’m going to use Ra to represent all the once elite-tier awoken uevos that got bumped down including Yomi, Sakuya and Bastet. These changes are following suit with what Game8 did last week — basically anything without an RCV or at least an HP multiplier is going the way of the dodo — but it’s still sad to see these once great leaders fall. What I really have to question, though, is why Anubis was spared (not to mention why Cloud and Ilm are still where they are).


Jump to: Game8 | GameWith | AppMedia | Pad-Plus


AppMedia

Changes from last time: Shiva Dragon SS➞S+, Neptune Dragon SS➞S+, Freyr A+➞S+, Raoh A+➞S+, Rukia added to S+, Ichigo added to S+, Ra S+➞S-, Sakuya S+➞S, Yomi S+➞S-, Anubis S+➞S, I&I A+➞S, Ryune A+➞S, Saria A+➞S, Thor A+➞S, Bastet S➞S-, Kite S➞S-, Sylvie A+➞S-, Freyja A+➞S-, Ragnarok Dragon A➞S-, Cloud A➞S-, Yamato Takeru removed from A+, Perseus removed from A+, Andromeda removed from A+, Pandora removed from A+
Legend: Popular on Pad-Plus
Original source
SS
2259 - Sun God, Ra Dragon
2261 - God of the Night, Tsukuyomi Dragon
S+
2253 - Destroyer God, Shiva Dragon
2255 - Sea Deity, Neptune Dragon
2507 - Awoken Archdemon Lucifer
2392 - Awoken Freyr
2445 - The Greatest Enemy, Raoh
2679 - 十三番隊隊士・Kuchiki Rukia
2677 - 虚化・Kurosaki Ichigo
2662 - Awoken Pandora
S
2566 - Ancestral Blue Dragon Caller, Sonia
2505 - Awoken Astaroth
2013 - Awoken Anubis
2389 - Awoken Sakuya
2393 - Awoken Idunn&Idunna
2443 - Returning-Claw Blue Dragonbound, Ryune
2441 - Judging-Claw Orange Dragonbound, Saria
2395 - Awoken Thor
S-
2325 - Awoken Yomi
2509 - Cutting-Claw Green Dragonbound, Sylvie
2394 - Awoken Freyja
2594 - 抗神機, Ragnarok Dragon
2012 - Awoken Ra
2011 - Awoken Bastet
2230 - 気狂いピエロ, Kite
2030 - Cloud & Hardy-Daytona
A+
2737 - 最果ての龍喚士・Sonia Gran Reverse
2537 - Year's First Dream God of Luck, Horus
2226 - 制約と誓約, Gon Freecss
1951 - Tome-Creating White Phantom Demon, Ilm
1949 - Lightning Black Dragonbound, Typhon
2009 - Awoken Horus
A
2660 - Fervent Monkey King, Sun Wukong
2465 - Ushio & Tora
1901 - 最強装備, Juggler
2360 - Mankind's Strongest Soldier, Levi
1954 - Awoken Shiva
1955 - Awoken Lakshmi
2407 - Mistress of the Old Castle, Kali
1847 - Maleficent Phantom Dragon King, Zaerog∞
2592 - Judging Scale Steel Star Goddess, Eschamali

As stated earlier, AppMedia changed up their format a bit. The tier names are a bit different now: basically everything that had “S” in it got bumped up a tier, then an additional tier — the new S- — was injected after them. With the additional tier, I decided to truncate the A- tier and redistributed the score weights accordingly. There’s actually less movement than it seems at first glace due to the new tier so use your discretion when evaluating the changes.

That aside, here are some alarming changes. I already went over the omission of the uuevo Heroes, but there are some dubious changes besides that. The most glaring are upgrades to Ragnarok Dragon and Cloud. They’re both great cards, but aren’t deserving of their promotions. It’s just a bunch of little things like that which really make the whole list somewhat suspect. Like, sure, GameWith also upgraded Raoh, but who’s to say that AppMedia used sound reasoning to make the decision themselves; or even worse, maybe it could just be a mistake. Regular readers already know I hate how Game8’s list is run and AppMedia is on the way to joining them in the doghouse.

AppMedia Changes of Note

Card Notes
2253 - Destroyer God, Shiva Dragon
Change: SS➞S+

AppMedia now falls in line with the other two tier lists with their ratings of Shiva and Neptune Dragons relative to Ra and Yomi. The question becomes: when will Shiva Dragon fall yet another tier?

2013 - Awoken Anubis
Change: S+➞S

AppMedia also followed suit and downgraded the same awoken uevos as GameWith (Ra, Sakuya, Yomi, Bastet), but also downgraded Anubis. Now all three lists are pretty much in agreement with where these cards stand.

2594 - 抗神機, Ragnarok Dragon
Change: A➞S-

AppMedia is the only site to give Ragnarok Dragon any love and they even gave him a boost this week. As stated earlier, I find this somewhat suspect, but I’ll give them the benefit of the doubt for now. At least for NA, Ragnarok Dragon is a fairly poor leader choice.

2030 - Cloud & Hardy-Daytona
Change: A➞S-

I have no idea why Cloud gets so much love from these lists. Game8 correctly omitted him from their list, but it took them forever to do so. I love me some Cloud System farming, but that’s basically all he’s good for. His incoming uevo is very exciting, but that’s no reason to boost his base form.


Jump to: Game8 | GameWith | AppMedia | Pad-Plus


Pad-Plus

Changes from last time: Rukia 3➞2, Pandora 2➞4, Yomi Dragon 4➞3, Ra Dragon 6➞5, Neptune Dragon 5➞7, AD Lucifer 7➞6, Anubis 10➞9, Yomi 9➞10, BSonia 14➞12, Bastet 12➞13, Typhon 13➞15, Saria 15➞14
Original source
1
2677 - 虚化・Kurosaki Ichigo
2
2679 - 十三番隊隊士・Kuchiki Rukia
3
2261 - God of the Night, Tsukuyomi Dragon
4
2662 - Awoken Pandora
5
2259 - Sun God, Ra Dragon
6
2507 - Awoken Archdemon Lucifer
7
2255 - Sea Deity, Neptune Dragon
8
2253 - Destroyer God, Shiva Dragon
9
2013 - Awoken Anubis
10
2325 - Awoken Yomi
11
2389 - Awoken Sakuya
12
2566 - Ancestral Blue Dragon Caller, Sonia
13
2011 - Awoken Bastet
14
2441 - Judging-Claw Orange Dragonbound, Saria
15
2745 - 滅法の黒龍契士・Typhon

There was a little reshuffling this week, but no additions or subtractions.


For details on the aggregation method or each Japanese site used, refer to this page (someday).

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16 thoughts on “JP Aggregate Leader List: Trial Week 4

  1. OK, well this is an interesting list now. Shiva down a tier is great, Nepdra down a tier is… understandable I suppose. I’ll argue that he’s better than Shiva dragon, but not that he’s better than RaDragon. As far as ease of use with an ideal team, point goes to Radra.

    Shiva in honorable mentions is good enough for me. He’s had it coming for some time now.

    Fenrir is sooooo close to being usable. IMO, the only thing keeping him from being good is a RCV multiplier. Give him 1.5x rcv, and he’s a worthy leader. The damage he puts out, while somewhat low for how much work it takes, is still sufficient for killing things. Reco did some cool things with him, (the most impressive is his obscenely good stalling skills. Seriously, that’s some nerve-wracking stuff right there…) and he looks fun to play… but not with how low his rcv is right now.

    Raoh and Freyr getting upgraded is surprising. I’ve always considered Freyr/Raoh to be the worst of the Norse pairings…? I guess that the lists disagree, but I’m curious why.

    Ra down on Gamewith… my oh my. Times are a-changing I suppose. And the funny thing? I think that I actually AGREE with the demotion… We have so many 100x leads now, 2 farmable ones even, and his sheer multiplier isn’t enough to stand out any more. Survivability is key now, and Ra simply doesn’t have any of it. Here’s hoping we get a suitable replacement in A.Hathor down the road.

    Like

    • If you disassociate Raoh from Freyr and consider all the things he can do by himself, then on top of it add what Raoh-Freyr can do, then you’ll understand why Raoh is better than the other Dragonbound-Norse pairings.

      As for your point about Fenrir, uh, give just about any decent leader 1.5x RCV and they’ll improve drastically. It’s actually telling that giving Fenrir 1.5x RCV that he’d actually still be relatively crappy.

      Like

      • Fenrir bothers me.

        1. No reliable way of getting Jammers. Active only works for one turn. Need multiple Fenrirs or the off color Constellation 2 gods, and you need like 8 Jammers for full damage anyways so ew.
        2. Buff includes matching multiple colors and here’s where I get mad. first off, what are the chances of a board with Jammers AND all the colors appearing. Yeah yeah we can use that new Jormund dragon dude, or Gainaut, but what are the chances of EIGHT Jammers appearing alongside every single other colors?! And it’s not like you can use Jormund/Gainaut every turn! And with Gainaut, who is DKali + Jam, it is impossible unless you are on 7×6. Two pieces of a leader skill that absolutely do NOT fit well together.

        and finally…

        3. Fenrir doesn’t just spawn 3 Jammers (measely amount of his LS requirement anyways, it should be like 4 or 5 Jammers instead), he spawns DARK orbs too. So let’s say you have a perfect board and you now need to give it some Jam. Well good grief look those dark orbs spawned over all the other colors you need now you have a terrible board with no more activation possible.

        Dammit GungHo rainbow leads absolutely HATE spawner actives. I don’t know what they were smoking when they decided giving him a rainbow component to his LS was a good idea. Fenrir as he was in his base form sucked. The fact that they call this a “buff” though…makes me mad. Really, really, really mad. This is not a buff. These are three puzzle pieces that belong in completely different puzzle boxes.

        And the fact that I pulled one last GF just rubs the salt into the wound so nicely.

        Like

  2. Hey Setsu, what does Raoh, Freyr have over the other NorsexDragonbound leads? i mean don’t you play them in a way where you stall until you can board change and spike the boss down and then rinse and repeat for next floor? I mean, my I&I+Ryune can burst about 11-12 million on a good board change. And you also have more HP. So what I am not getting is what does Raoh have that I&I+ryune/Saria+Thor/Sylvie+Freyja doesn’t?

    Thx.

    Like

  3. “Both GameWith and AppMedia upgraded Raoh in the same week, so I’m wondering if there’s something I’m missing. The only recent change I’m aware of is uuevo Yamato (who is both a good sub and leader pair) which is nice, but that can’t be the only thing.”

    After getting my A Pandora team up and running and farming Alt Aither for awhile I realize just how strong that double orb change is. It gives you the option to either heal up while still doing a reasonable amount of damage or when you pair up with Valk you’re just flooding the board with dark orbs.

    Running Valk on my Raoh team means I have 3 heartbreakers so it’s rare that I don’t have one up and ready. If I’m using Raoh that means Yamato has an effective 7 turns cd. Plus he syncs perfectly with Leilan for a boss board and gives me a bind clear to boot. So I’m looking at Urd/Valk/Yamato/Leilan. 11 row, 5 oe’s, 2 heart oe’s, 5 fingers, 100% skill bind resist, and enough skill boosts to have every single active up on turn one. Just a beast of a team:) Maybe not a night and day diffference, but I think it’s going to be noticeable.

    Like

    • It’s definitely important to essentially combine Belial and Sanada into a single sub and I agree Yamato is huge, but my inquiry is in the context to what lists have done in the past. Which is to not reflect any movement in their ranking even when a team gets a great new sub. I’m more than willing to accept that Yamato was reason enough, but I’d like to think there was more to it than just that (which may just be that their overall opinions changed).

      Like

  4. Hey setsu, I have a Raoh team so I’m waiting to try out 2 uuevo yamatos in it paired with leilan and Freyr do you think it’ll work? And tbh I still think binds and hastes are a big problemso idk why Raoh is getting such a high rating. Also why do you think that they needed much more utility by having rcu or health or both for a lead skill even tho they’re bindable.

    Like

    • The team should be fine, but I don’t know why you need Freyr as a sub.

      So many players overrate the significance of binds. Name a sweeping preemptive bind in today’s endgame. There aren’t many. For preemptive random binds, that’s what Yamato now addresses. Any non-preemptive bind can be worked around. If the bind is really a problem, you can escalate to running Misato or Eren.

      I don’t know you mean by hastes. Are you referring to skill delays? I don’t see how that’s a bigger problem for Raoh than any other team.

      I don’t understand your last question. If you’re wondering why they would give leader skills HP or RCV multiplier but not unbindability, once again, you’re significantly overrating binds.

      Like

      • my last question meant why are unbindable leaders with high damage lower rated than leaders with decent damage and buffs to their rcu and health.
        About the skill delays I was thinking it was more harmful to a system type team but never mind.
        And also who should I replace Freyr with then? Set, ronia, chibi ronia, or my scarlet that I still have to skill up.

        Thanks for the reply.

        Like

        • Like I said, there are very few critical binds. Sustainability is much more valuable in the endgame — particularly in the Arena — than bind immunity. You can deal with binds with subs; you can’t give yourself a static HP and/or RCV buff through subs. This becomes more polarizing when said teams can also output consistently high damage like Lucifer and Pandora.

          System teams are garbage gimmicks (says the guy with just about every relevant system team in the game). Raoh is not a system team unless you’re running 4x Scarlets or Christmas Sonias.

          Probably RSonia, but that’s digging pretty deep.

          Like

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