Quick Thoughts on DAthena in the MP Shop

I’ve been getting a fair amount of questions on this so I might as well make a post. tl;dr: Despite being incredibly strong, she’s not worth the price for the vast majority of players. At the risk of sounding elitist, if the first thing that came to mind was “750k? really?” then she probably isn’t a card you should consider getting.

Is She That Good?

Yes.

How Good?

See for yourself. She’s considered among the best solo Arena 3 farmers in the game.

setsu pls. Elaborate.

Fine. The key to her power is the ease of activation where you only need a dark TPA and a water match to shit out damage. Compared to other two-color leaders, she does significantly more damage per orb while being bind immune. So, basically, you can cruise control Arena 3 and save almost all your actives for the Radar Dragon without stalling.

Damage Control?

Nothing says you have to make TPAs or match water.

Weaknesses?

To be honest, not having played her myself I don’t know the nuances. The most obvious is that you can’t heal without also attacking which can be annoying in certain instances. The lack of an SBR also puts some constraint on her team building, but isn’t a huge deal.

Is She Worth 750k MP?

For almost everybody, no. There’s a few types of players I see purchasing her:

  • Players like me to whom MP is worthless – I have multiples of every MP card worth owning. I’ve been reduced to buying ATK latents and evo materials from the MP Shop to stay under the cap since nothing else is worthwhile. I have quite a few GFEs I haven’t sold since they just aren’t worth cashing in. A 750k price tag will purge some MP from the system.
  • Players that value endgame farming speed, but don’t have Ra Dragon subs or didn’t roll Aizen – In terms of farming speed, there’s almost no reason to buy DAthena if you already have a reasonable Ra Dragon or Aizen team. Even then, that’s really only for Arena 3; if you want an Arena 1 farmer, Yomi Dragon looks much more appealing at less than half the price. However, if you have neither, this is your best option for fast and consistent latent killer farming, particularly if you intend to solo.
  • Longtime casual players that want an easy to access meta lead – The problem with what are considered today’s top leads is that they’re either gated by difficult dungeons (MP Dragons, Myr) or are just rare rolls (Aizen, Kaede). DAthena represents an immediate jump to an elite leader who doesn’t even need to be evolved. This is perfect for a casual that never pulled the trigger on an MP purchase since there was never anything good for their situation. Sacrifices will have to be made and to many it won’t be worth it, but I can see it happening. It’s not entirely related since JP is swimming in free MP, but I’m almost certainly going to mortgage my alt’s casual box to buy her. I’ve deemed the MP Dragon uuevos too far out of reach so this is that account’s best chance to take the next step forward.

Should I Buy Her?

In addition to the above thoughts, you obviously need a good set of subs and inherits for her. This is not something everyone just has lying around so you need to put some good thought into it, like everything else.

750k MP Is Impossible to Obtain

Wrong, but even I feel the price is a little excessive. However, I’ll point to my NA alt as an example of it not being too oppressive. Non-IAP for those that don’t follow that post series, by the way.

I bought Summer Myr in August for 500k MP. I then bought two Ragnarok Dragons a couple of months later. That’s 600k MP in two months from Zaerog farming. Since then, about three to four months, I’m back up to 700k MP. I wasn’t even dedicated to farming MP during that period, a majority of that time going towards Py and SDR farming. No, I haven’t sold any REM cards. No, I’ve never stoned stamina for MP farming specifically. So yes, it’s more than possible to farm the MP for her in a reasonable amount of time. And guess what, she’s at least two months away for NA so you get a nice head start should you want her.

Which brings me to:

The Time Commitment to Farm 750k MP Is Too High

Wrong.

Okay, maybe for casuals it is. But DAthena isn’t a casual card anyways.

You get 480 natural stamina per day. Let’s assume a player rank in the 500-600 range, meaning you can get at least one rank up from farming Zaerog∞ per day (note that you can go infinite on Zaerog up to the early- to mid-500s). You have about 300 stamina at that rank, so let’s say you get about 750 stamina per day. That’s 30 Zaerog runs per day. Assuming the worst drop luck imaginable, you get 550 MP per run. That’s 16,500 MP per day. Assuming a slow Zaerog team at about three minutes per clear, that’s 90 minutes per day. At that rate, farming 750k MP will take about 45 days with about 70 total hours played in that span.

Of course, concessions have to be made for dungeons you’d normally want to play like the various Challenges and limited time skill up dungeons. It’s also not entirely realistic to assume perfect stamina utilization. I don’t think a two or even three month period to farm this card is too unreasonable, though.

But Farming Sucks!

Well, if you don’t like farming, this card won’t be that useful to you anyways. She’s a fine sub, but this is a farming leader at heart, so why would you farm for a farming card if you don’t like farming? You’re not missing out on much, if anything at all.

But Me Me Me!

Sorry, not everything in this game is made for everyone to enjoy. Let’s hope there are future MP Shop offerings like this that appeal to more people.

But Other MP Cards Are a Better Deal! Or Myr!

Assuming a decent card pool, sure, they are. Everyone’s situation is different, though. That being said, for the average player, outside extreme circumstances I don’t see DAthena justifying her cost.

I Wish I Could Just Buy This Like JP

I hear you. $30-40 retail or even $60-70 or whatever it is on the secondhand market isn’t the worst deal for a guaranteed premier card. Time is a valuable resource, too.

First 500k, Now 750k, The Sky Is Falling!

MP is relatively cheap now. The original MP Dragons were priced in a time when you had no choice but to sell REM cards. With the ever increasing ease and accessibility of MP farming, inflation should be no surprise, especially on JP. I’m sure they’d love to raise the MP Dragon price tag if they could get away with it.

So… Is NA Even Getting This?

I think it’s a reasonable expectation. We did (eventually) get the PAD X evolutions and this is in much the same vein, as in the cards originated due to PAD X. Obviously there’s always a chance we won’t, but even as jaded as I am about getting cool stuff on NA, I’m fairly optimistic about this.

Wew Does This Mean Red Myr NA 2018?

Joking aside, this does pave the way for the presumed fire Myr to eventually make its way to NA. Before we jump the gun with our hopes, we first need to see if the new Sonia makes it to the MP shop on JP to establish a trend and, of course, see if DAthena makes it to NA in the first place.

Will She Still Be Relevant If/When NA Gets Her?

¯\_(ツ)_/¯

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37 thoughts on “Quick Thoughts on DAthena in the MP Shop

  1. Your “See for yourself” link is broken.

    It sure would be nice if we either got the ~500K (or whatever) free MP that JP is getting before this goes on sale. That doesn’t seem likely, but maybe they will lower the price? Oh wait, that also doesn’t seem likely. Time to get farming…

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    • Fixed, thanks!

      Yeah, I doubt we’ll get a different price even if 500k seems a lot more reasonable. The JP playerbase can’t even handle when we got an American-based collab before them so GungHo probably doesn’t want to deal with any blowback by us getting a cheaper price.

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  2. Great post! I’m a veteran player sitting on ~750k (it fluctuates), with most of the MP cards I want, and I’m constantly pondering frittering them away on something super niche (like Plum). But a target like this is perfect for me.

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  3. Ich not going to get her, since I’m a non IAP and don’t really like MP-Farming… Thanks god I have friends that’ll get her, so I can pair her with my Persephone 😀

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  4. Great overview, I always think people overvalue MP with farming. I have been farming rogues for almost a year now since mhera was first released. I have now reached the point where I have been running low on MP options, with nepdra, 2 ragdras, radra, 2 puppeteers, bmyr, and 2 red sonias purchased from MP farming. Frankly the MP store is one of the best bets for NIAP. I am also now near rank 800 with essentially no stamina stoning, and thanks to your post about yamamoto I am now doing ~80K exp rogue runs with wangren which is keeping the ranking at a decent pace.

    So again great summary. I personally would probably buy her, just because her playstyle looks fun and I am thinking you can build some strong teams with all TPA subs, and subs like the new shinji would be great for her.

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  5. Being a niap player in the very end game, I tried to snag an aizen for ez arena 3 farming, since I have lots of solid D/B cards, but couldn’t. I’ve been using myr for a3, but imo, DAth is better. I’m currently at around 415k, but with farming rogues, I can prob get to 750k within the upcoming months even with school.

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  6. I agree with all the things said about farming MP. As a NIAP it is definitely possible to get large amounts of MP with a few hours a week.

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  7. why is everyone always talking about red myr? would she be significantly better than regular myr/bmyr? or is this just for people who dont have subs for those leads?

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  8. As an idiot who doesn’t whale anymore, I sold 2/3 of my box, farmed lots of Arenas, and then bought 2 Halloween XM’s because she was pretty…

    750k is definitely not impossible.

    :’)

    That’s a tear.

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  9. 750k.. seems like maybe 1% of the player base might buy this? Idk.. You’re right in saying it’s only for a very few percentage of players. Maybe 1%? 2%? Think I’m gonna pass on her. Got enough other stuff to work on.

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  10. Thanks for making a post dedicated to this! I’m sitting on 423000 MP after like 5 months of just selling REM cards, doing Co op for this and that, and selling preDRA and descend bosses and I’m building up my dios army right now. I’m not sure if Dark Athena is worth it for me but I have a lot of hypermaxed dark cards and if MP farming is as mindless as people advertise it to be I might bite. I have no chance at a Ra Dragon team and I don’t own Aizen and all I’ve got for the really tough content is Myr. I’m also not exactly willing to make a Minerva cheese team which needs Charite

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    • It really is mindless. I suggest picking some kind of TV series or some form of like entertainment to multitask while farming. It really makes the process enjoyable, or at least tolerable.

      If you just want an alternative to Myr I think it’s worth it. Just being able to consider subs like Persephone and Haku again is like a breath of fresh air. If you’re trying to be efficient, maybe not. I guess it comes down to how tolerable you find MP farming; if it isn’t a big deal for you then you can buy her and when GungHo inevitably releases something else on the MP Shop, you can reasonably farm for that, too.

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      • Yeah, I’ll have to see how MP farming treats me what with school at all :^)

        I think I’d build this team: DAthena / Durga (with active inherit) / APersephone / AHaku / bankai Pandora. Reaches 100% SBR and covers just about everything I would need.

        I need Zeus-Dios or Hera-Beorc to come back soon :^(

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  11. Is DA any good for coop? Like you I want this for my alt account. Mainly so I can coop end game and farm. But if this is only really for solo use then I should keep waiting for something else. All the videos I’ve seen are solo runs.

    And can DA handle Hera Dragon?

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    • Yes, she’s all-around good in co-op. She’s more aimed towards the most difficult content like Arena 3, though, as more specialized teams will be more time efficient for farming lower content.

      She can handle all of the Radars with relative ease.

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  12. My problem with the farming analysis, despite that it is thoughtful and clear, is that I tend to value my leisure time at around a hypothetical abstract $20-25 or so an hour, meaning if I could somehow buy more vacation time from my employer/spouse/etc at that rate, I’d be beyond delighted.

    So 70 hours of farming is 1,750 of economic value – time is substantially valuable. You definately mention that, however I feel you, and most bloggers, undervalue how substantial/valuable it is. In no way is dark Athena even remotely a $1000 card, even discounting a bit for farming being slightly fun, and spare time on the margins being free and so forth.

    Of course, if you are well off enough that your leisure time economic value is 20-30+/hr, (though one could argue quite a lot of people’s is, and that they would be very justified buying housekeeping, or task rabbit errand help, etc), you’re are well off enough you could just whale it and cough up the packs direct liquidation slaughter. Still makes the card unpleasantly overpriced hundreds for what has half its value as a farm lead.

    Sigh. Gung-ho…

    Good analysis though.
    I just wish the economic cost / gaming opportunity cost saw more emphasis.
    Perhaps it’s just that my heart is rarely in farming daily on end for months at a time.
    I respect the players who enjoy and-or grind it.

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    • If heroine REM comes you can roll for guaranteed 5*-7* rem rolls. 5* roll sell for 15k and 6* roll for 50k. 6* rate in the rem was about 1/3. So approximately 2840mp per stone. 750k MP is 264 stones, rounded up to 270 stones. 270 stones is around 3 packs. 3 packs is nominally $180. iTunes and Google play discounts could be had for 10-15% off. Which puts Dathena around $160 out of pocket cost.

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    • I’m a bit confused with what you’re looking for or even getting at.

      People that can equate their time to $20+/hr are, in the broad sense of the term, responsible working adults. By virtue of being responsible adults, they are qualified to make their own decisions on the economic impact this game has on their lives and valuing the return they get from it.

      I write to my audience. Either people that are concerned about something like this don’t visit this site, don’t make their presence known, or they can determine this themselves while incorporating my advice into their gameplay as it fits their lives and goals.

      This lack of demand is why you never really hear anyone address this. Past that, there’s not much point in incorporating IRL circumstances into a gaming advice site, especially in an IAP game with a playerbase that ranges from children to millionaires and each has their own set of IRL circumstances. The two should remain separate and it’s really up to each person to negotiate them.

      Is DAthena bad value if you equate your leisure time to money? Maybe. In most cases? Sure. But in those cases she was bad value regardless of your financial situation.

      Is something like Myr hypothetically a more efficient option? Maybe. I mean, what circumstances lead you to the point you could farm her? To where you had a decent team to run her?

      What about Ra Dragon? Well, you need the 300k MP, then the strict sub selection, then the ability to gather the evo mats. What’s the cost of that?

      I mean, for DAthena, all you need are a few dark REM rolls and herself. Maybe that’s the most efficient option for progression for someone, financial or otherwise. Whether they farmed her or dumped money into the MP machine.

      In short, there’s really no easy way to put a strict financial and/or temporal value on things. It’s up to each player to determine that. All I can do is present my knowledge and opinions to try and help the process. For the most part, that information is relevant regardless of your out of game circumstances.

      A further problem with equating your leisure time to money is that you’re almost always better off doing something than playing games. If you take that stance, then why even play a game like PAD or any game in the first place? Or even take leisure time at all?

      It’s because, in some way, it’s rewarding. You can’t put a dollar price on that.

      Finally, I take offense that you think I don’t value time. The majority of this blog is all about finding the most consistent teams for the endgame and shaving seconds off farming teams and making them as mindless as possible so I can multitask. Maybe that doesn’t overlap with what you’re trying to accomplish — you don’t really elaborate on how you play the game — but to say I don’t value the most efficient play is false.

      Anyways, thank you for contributing your perspective. It definitely made me think in a way I haven’t had to in a while. Hopefully the long-windedness didn’t come across as me disapproving your opinion because, to a certain degree, I agree with you. At least to the point where people need to weigh the value of their time into how they play the game.

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    • You really though need to look at the marginal value of your time as well. While I could undoubtedly be better off by finding part time work and then buying stones to save time, the fact is I already have a full time salary position and farming mp does provide some marginal benefit and leisure at the same time. Not necessarily practical for me to go out and find additional work hours to save game time.

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    • 750k is a pretty steep price for a sub. I’m not adverse to it as she’s quite good in that capacity, especially if you have the spare resources and/or are willing to farm MP, but I wouldn’t sell the farm for her, either.

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  13. If we get her, I’m 100% buying her the day she comes out (assuming some amazingly adorable seasonal MP card doesn’t hit first, and even then it might be a tough call). I started playing as Light Athena was in decline, spent infinity dollars trying to get School Athena (and failing), and I gueeeess I could grind away for MAthena (one of these days I will bite the bullet, just like Myr) and get all those terrible evo mats together (actually it’s needing to buy ugly RagDras that’s holding me back), but Athena is one of my favorite PAD characters, Dark is my favorite PAD color (and by far my most developed box), so I’m super exited at the chance to finally have a playable version of her.

    Sitting at 643k right now, so I can definitely get there by the time she hits, although wow, that is a LOT of MP, haha.

    I suppose I could buy RaDra, since I have 2 DKalis and all the other subs except for Kanna, but eeeeh. Even though is uuvo has way better art than his ugly older form, it’s still not a waifu so I mean… <_<

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    • >Even though is uuvo has way better art than his ugly older form, it’s still not a waifu so I mean…

      The waifu factor is the most important in the game. You’ve got your priorities straight my friend.

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  14. I know that there are push button teams for co-op farming zaerog infinity. Do you have any recommendations for solo speed farming the predra difficulty?

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  15. Funny seeing your alt…. it’s pretty what i did (except somewhat less farming and more selling REM things), Currently my alt has a really good biru team I coop main with, and a decent roots team. However I couldn’t roll miru or radra sub (except 1 dkali), but do I have 2 dmeta and an escha. plus 2 Ryune and a Typhon that I can inherit…. so very tempted to go for this. Currently have 200k mp, and about 150-200k mp I don’t feel bad about selling, and prob another 100k I would feel bad selling but ultimately inconsequential… time to get farming I suppose (it is rather unfortunate I have no MZ sub and can’t roll ALB despite only rolling in GF where he is featured since beginning)

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  16. I agree with your MP farming statements for the most part, but have a single gripe with the whole system. Of note is that I haven’t done nearly the level of farming that you have, but I fairly recently farmed up the last 50k MP I needed to get a RagDra for my Ronove team. The farming went easy, as I have a decent ALB setup for most of the rogue dungeons.

    My problem with the system of MP farming is that it requires coop. I, like you, enjoy the game for it’s ease of access whenever I want to play. Coop shits all over that with me having to use discord, hope somebody else wants to play, or hope I can get into somebody else’s room before another person does. Coop without lobbies/matchmaking is really a shit show. You’re way around this is to have an alternate account to coop with. I would love to have this capability, but to me it isn’t quite worth the investment monetarily to have a second device with which to ‘self-coop’ with.

    Now, maybe I’m making too much of it. Maybe I could get something cheap that would play the game just fine. I’m just still a bit frustrated with coop in general. I want to play, I don’t want to watch others play. I especially don’t want to fail a dungeon due to somebody else’s err. /rant

    Given all that, do you have any suggestions for cheap devices to use as an alt account? I’m a bit late to start gathering free stones, and I missed the PCGF, but if it’s cheap enough it might still be worth it in order to avoid the dreaded coop mess. Just having to interface with other people to get rooms going makes the whole process SO MUCH SLOWER! 3-min per Z8 run is great, but when the person you’re running with leaves it can mean a potential 5 minute gap before you can begin your next set of runs!

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    • I hear your gripe about co-op. My comment on farming MP was more to make a point that it isn’t totally impossible to do the requisite farming, but, yeah, there’s definitely a lot of time lost to overhead if you don’t have a regular farming partner or an alt. I agree that finding a partner on Discord is rather annoying and that co-op in general kills the convenience factor the game originally had. The best solution would be to find someone in a similar situation to farm with on a regular basis, but even that has large overhead as even finding and making friends via public chat/forums takes a significant time investment (as cold as that may sound).

      A bit ironic that one of the best solo leads in the game requires co-op farming for most people to reasonably acquire.

      As far as an alt device, I don’t really know. I just use my old phones. Buying a brand new tablet, cheap Android phone or even something like an iPod touch is still quite pricey (like 100-200 it looks like) and searching for a used phone feels risky. I’d probably see if one of your friends is looking to upgrade their phone and maybe you can work out a deal for their old one. The cheapest Amazon Fire tablet appears to be $50, but I’ve heard bad things about it for PAD. Maybe you can find a comparable Android device with a better touch interface for a similar price?

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    • I also just use my old phones as alt devices, but a friend has had good experiences with Motorola Moto X’s from Ebay. Looks to be about $80, with 30 day free returns (though you pay shipping).

      Still not that cheap, but if you think of it as buying a pack and a half, it might be easier to justify.

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    • Since I don’t farm Arena 3 I can’t say anything about them firsthand. They seem comparable enough that any difference doesn’t seem to matter. I hear that DAthena is more consistent.

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