JP Aggregate Leader List
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Disclaimer: The aggregate list is an average of the tier lists from multipler JP gaming sites. It is compiled automatically by a script. I endeavor to have as little influence on the results as possible. Feel free to refer to the FAQ. Don’t take these ratings as fact; I encourage you to simply take them as a starting point for discussion to figure out which leads are actually the best for your specific situation.
Game8 did some stuff after three weeks of silence. The other lists essentially stood pat. I believe the JP stream starts in like nine hours from this post (converting to Moon time is hard) so hopefully there’s some interesting news.
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For more information about the JP Aggregate Leader List, please refer to this post.
Setsu's PAD Blog 
It’s been slightly demoralizing to watch radra gradually muscle everyone else out over the last few weeks. Hoping we wake up to some exciting news from the stream tomorrow bc this is not a trend I want to see continue…
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It’s still a lot better to see an ‘oldschool lead’ like him on top than a heart cross leader tho…
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Actually, it’s worse. Pushing a lead that was already at the top of the meta back up again is a terrible decision. This would be akin to pushing Myr back to the undisputed lead again in a year. I already suffered a year of Ra Dragon dominance; I don’t have any plans to use him in the future.
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My problem is that it’s Ra Dragon. So boring to have a lead that was undisputed #1 be that again. I guess in the end it doesn’t really matter which card is the lead, but it would’ve been nice to see a different set of subs be coveted instead of DKali for another year.
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As an niap scrub what gets me down the most is he’s completely out of reach for me. I would have to get the mp, then the evo mats, and on top of that roll mutilple kalis and kannas, no way any of that’s happening. At least when Myr was the best I could theorectically make her myself one day.
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The difference between now and back then is that the gap between Ra Dragon and the rest of the field is much smaller. Cards that are tiered below him are much better at certain things which really wasn’t the case previously. There’s no reason to fixate on him as the best lead or feel discouraged because you can’t make the team. It’s just a tier list and shouldn’t affect how you enjoy the game.
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I was wondering if it’s worth getting revo ceres, does she pair with herself or is there another good card she pairs well with? Also what are some of the good subs for her?
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I don’t think it’s worth your time.
I believe she really only pairs with herself. There’s no alternative on Ilm’s level like there is for Minerva so you’re really just using her to cheese.
Subs? I’d start with things that make wood orbs but don’t break dark as well as things that make both. I wouldn’t focus too much on rows vs. TPAs, but any additional synergies there are a bonus.
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I don’t like the recent focus on GFEs over pantheons as premier subs/leads. I understand they should be more elite than 5* cards due to rarity…but still. And it seems like GH is rolling with the one-pantheon-feature + all the GFEs making the pantheons that much more annoying to obtain. RIP Akechi and Venus you are now my white whales. I went ahead and pulled the trigger on my fiance’s account since he rolled a DKali earlier and has Kanna and Isis from the recent PCGF last December. Yeah yeah only one DKali but I don’t care :^)
Meanwhile I’m STILL using Myr and her optimal team apparently contains Paimon and Kanna so I don’t even have that smh. Just gonna get Dark Athena and be done with life, at least I have Durga and Persephone for her and also Castor/DMeta/blah blah blah (but again no f@*^#%ing Kanna).
Lacking only a pile of the good 6* makes it really demoralizing, I have no plans on rolling in REM machines this year because it’s just pointless. (My 6* GFEs are ROdin, Ryune x2, and DMeta. Yeah…)
Fingers crossed for a good Ryune buff I guess. Because you know they totally don’t need ults or anything.
/end rant
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I don’t know that the “optimal” team for Myr matters all that much. I’m bad enough skill-wise that a self-proclaimed “shitter” like setsu is still leagues better than me, and I managed to beat OSC with a cobbled-together Myr team (Saria, DQXQ, Athena, Elia, with the last two inheriting heartmakers).
Don’t get me wrong, Kanna is fantastic (and Paimon is good, although I don’t feel like I can find a place for him in dungeons that matter), but it’s not like you need her, or any of the “optimal” subs, to be able to clear just about any content the game can throw at you.
As for Dark Athena, Durga/Persephone/Castor/Zaerog should be very good, and those Ryunes you’re down on will make excellent inherits. So cheer up! Sounds to me like your box is doing just fine for endgame content.
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what do you think of athena another (http://puzzledragonx.com/en/monster.asp?n=2568) as a “poverty” leader for someone that hasn’t developed a myr yet?
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I mean, you gotta do what you gotta do, I guess.
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Whaat why did Acala get demoted? I have been having a ton of success farming A3 with her, and, at least for me, she is much much safer then Myr because of her no skyfall, as she essentially has flawless damage control, and a TON of HP/ RCV (on par with Radra). Her active also helps with combo shields that are usually a pain for cross leads. The only weakness I see is we bindability, but I have never had a problem with that due to a Parvati sub.
It seems to me that this aggregate list is more of a popularity list than an actual best leader list.
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Please. I think you’re misunderstanding things.
First, Game8 probably fucked up their list this week. I was going to mention this in the post, but I forgot. In their reorganization they dropped her from A to totally off the list instead of what should presumably be a demotion to B. Getting kicked off a list entirely hurts a lot. Let’s see if they “fix” this.
Next, you need to understand how the tiers are weighted. It’s prioritized on consistency and speed. Acala is neither consistent nor fast. I don’t mean “hey I went 9/10 A3” consistent, I mean 99% when you’re not even paying attention consistent. That Coliseum looks like a joke. By fast I mean 15-20 min A3 runs when you’re watching TV fast. If you don’t have such strict grading then everything would be top-tier and tiers would be meaningless.
Lastly, where would you put Acala on the list? Instead of just superficially comparing her solely to Myr — who’s been falling out of favor — or pointing out a couple of her good points — which are shared with pretty much the entire list — you need to explain why she’s on par with those whose tier you’d place her at and why she’s better than the cards under her. Otherwise, it sounds like you’re the one basing things on popularity (i.e. you own opinion) rather than basing it on fact.
Anyways, it’s good to see that you’re having success with her. If Game8’s change is permanent, then I disagree with it, too. Otherwise, I’d expect her to regain her rank.
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Ah thanks! I’ve only cleared A3 with Myr, Tamazou, and Acala, so I don’t know much about the “best” leads for it, but in terms of what I have experience with, Acala is my best, and far better than Myr in terms of safety, and also in terms of speed. (Of course I’m making the only comparison i can make, so RaDra or Dathena might be a lot better, and probably are).
I say this mainly because of Acala’s no skyfall clause. There have been many times with Myr where skyfall has made a run go on for too long (e.g Parvati) or even killed me (e.g Kagu sometimes), but I have no such troubles with Acala. I can two shot sopdet, three shot Parvati, and easily deal with kagu with minimal hassle. That, at least for me, makes runs go a lot lot faster. Along with this, I have to stall a lot less with acala, as Myr is a lot more active heavy, and when I do have to stall, I’m not comboing a ton for healing because of her high HP and RCV multiplier.
Using Acala, i also find the radar dragons a lot easier to kill, especially Heradra (where skyfall would troll me when using Myr all the time). With acala, I can control exactly how much damage I do, and thus kill each radar dragon in the shortest amount of turns (and also time). I have very satisfying strategies for all the radar dragons, and can kill them in about as few turns as possible with their damage absorbs/ voids.
I have the myr team that I want to have (i.e there are no subs that I want for it to fill any gaps), and so I think the comparison I’m making isn’t due to having a suboptimal myr team.
If I’m missing some big point, could you pleaded point it out? The only one I can think of is combo shields, like Mzeus in Coliseum, but Revo Hades and Acala’s +1 to combo count ohko’s him (I’ve tested it and it works very well for me), so at least for me, Acala is definitely rivalling at least Myr in terms of prowess, and so I would personally rate her on par with myr.
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Well, as a lead on the way down, Myr isn’t the greatest comparison. In A3, which apparently has a huge weight in these ratings, she’s generally considered less consistent than Ra Dragon and much slower than Aizen and DAthena. However, since it’s what you have experience with, let’s run with it.
The reason she’s still in the 2nd highest tier of most lists probably has much to do with inertia, but her ability to field a bind immune team (along with Ra Dragon) is a huge asset. Which is one I think you’re severely underrating. Just using A3 as an example, the wood-binding Kraken still exists and even if you can deal with it, there’s then no guarantee you can handle the random binds from the tamas on the next floor. This also can leave you vulnerable to a skill bind. Then there are quite a few random binds scattered throughout the dungeon. It may not seem like much, but the margins add up over 100s of runs. You’re also relieved of having to commit a sub/skill slot to dealing with binds, instead freeing it for another sub/active to increase your margins elsewhere.
Damage control means a lot less nowadays due to Fujin. Acala’s no skyfall clause is definitely still an asset in this regard. As I mentioned with binds, it’s a definite advantage to not have to dedicate a slot to an active to deal with a mechanic, but unlike previously there’s at least an option for other teams.
If you have to stall more with Myr than Acala then you’re not using an optimized team. The Myr TPA teams are still at the mercy of skyfall, thus making them slow, but only needing 5 hearts and 4 light orbs isn’t a very high requirement. Just this amount of matching + clearing the board is usually enough to one-shot every floor up the the Radars. Remember, tier lists only take optimal teams into consideration. I don’t know what your Myr subs are like, but it feels like you haven’t used this set up.
Cross leaders will always have trouble with combo shields. This is a good reason why Ra Dragon is considered above them.
Anyways, as I always try to stress, the difference between each tier is small. Acala should probably still be in the aggregate tier-3, making her only one tier behind Myr, which really isn’t that big of a difference. Maybe JP values bind immunity or some other aspect more than you. But to say it’s all popularity isn’t thinking it through objectively (after all, as evidenced by JP and NA’s previous PCGF, both are plenty popular). I can totally see where you’re coming from from the Acala side, though. I’m really just playing devil’s advocate for Myr here.
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Sorry, I didn’t intend to say that the tier list was solely a popularity list. I just meant that popularity seems to play more of a role in the tierings than I would like, in some cases.
Yeah, the Myr team I use isn’t the bind immune TPA one. It’s a row based team, because i don’t have any Kanna or Ariels. So I haven’t ever tried any fully bind immune team, which may make me a tad biased.
However, although Acala needs to use up a spot for a bind clear, Radra and Myr teams have to use a slot for a defense void or a damage boost, like kanna. Acala doesn’t need that, so in the end, the amount of utility slots used equals out. Fujin is also nice, but is yet again another utility slot used up, and if you’re going for speed runs, you can only use the active so many times. For example if you use it on Parvati, you won’t have it up for Vishnu or Herad. I also wouldn’t consider my bind clear as solely a utility slot, as it is Parvati with a GGY Inherit. This means that it’s still useful as an orb changer if I don’t need the bind clear part of the active.
If we’re comparing acala to Radra, the main thing that I see her having over him is her damage output. With 2 combos (crosses), acala can hit 2-3 million damage per sub (4-6 million if both crosses are green). Radra needs 6-7 combos to hit even 2 million per sub, requiring 6 different colour matches. At least to me, Radra’s activation seems considerably more luck based (board-wise), for a lower damage output, especially seeing as you only have 2-3 dkali actives on the team to fix bad boards.
I guess I have a very high opinion of Acala because I run her in coop a lot with my friend. Our conversation seems to be more about solo mode, and while I still maintain that Acala is as good as Myr in solo, coop is where she really shines. All of the problems you highlighted (I.e bindability and thus problems with skill binds) are fixed. Both my coop partner and I have Parvati!GGY, which means that we’re never short of bind clears. We also have 110k HP, which means we can tank almost any hit, only needing Indra for Heradra. He’s also nice for Kali, but you can one shot her with 3 crosses from a verd board, so Indra isn’t necessary.
So essentially it’s a tradeoff, where Radra/ Myr have the unbindability, but Acala has the flawless damage control and an extremely high damage output. Coop doesn’t even make the runs overly slow. We still finish them in around half an hour, with our shortest run so far being 25 minutes.
Of course this is only my opinion, and although she isn’t on nearly par with Radra, I do feel that she is very underestimated. Most people I talk to don’t even realise she can clear A3, perhaps because some sites put her in the tier of things such as Sumire, who can’t clear A3.
Anyway, thanks for taking the time to reply and have this discussion with me :).
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If we’re talking Ra Dragon, I can tell you’ve played with him very little, if at all.
No, you don’t need a dedicated damage void/laser with him since you have Lightning.
He’s actually very consistent at activation. Even a player of modest skill can clear the board with the team’s time extends which results in at least a 5/6 board almost always, even though an adverse skyfall buff like Osiris.
Your damage estimations are off. Kanna is ridiculous (arguably the best sub in the game atm) and allows the team to clear floors at 5/6 colors. This means you’re very rarely using DKali board changes for anything. Kanna was instrumental in boosting Ra Dragon above other leads and also provides a substantial boost to Myr.
Any utility actives are for the Radars specifically. Outside maybe a skill use for the PreDRA floor or something like Beelzebub, you don’t really need to use any. This is pretty much the same for the top 3 A3 leads (Ra Dragon, Aizen, DAthena).
Fujin is for speeding up the run, not really for utility. The top 3 A3 leads can all consistently deal with absorbs, Fujin just makes the run faster. Damage control is important, but in what situations is it a do or die situation for these leads? Sopdet, maybe? Hera Dragon? That’s really all she’s for, but they were already good at those floors. The fact that you can dedicate a slot to Fujin and not lose anything says a lot about the team. I wouldn’t even say Fujin is a huge positive for these teams since they don’t even need her, it’s more of a counterpoint that teams besides no skyfall ones can deal with absorb shields if they really want to.
Co-op means nothing to these lists as they’re all about solo. All your co-op positives apply to just about every team in existence.
I’d agree Acala is very strong. I’d agree that she has a lot of positives compared to Myr. This is why I always warn that people need to take the tier lists in context. Nor are they the end all be all of PAD. It’s frustrating that many people still don’t understand that.
I’ve enjoyed the conversation, too. I’m actually not a huge fan of Ra Dragon or Myr just from a personal taste perspective so I’m not all that excited to defend them, but it’s a good exercise to see what people think of them relative to other leads. Where I’m at in the game, I actually don’t really care about trying to tier leads in the abstract, I’m more interested in which tool is best for each job considering my capabilities as a player and which is fastest at doing so. Like trying to abstractly define what is the best lead for the “endgame” seems like a fool’s errand, which is why I leave it up to JP. I think it’s great you’ve found a team that serves you well for what you want to do as that’s all the really matters in the end.
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Yeah I’ve never played Ra Dragon, so it seems you’re right that I’ve underestimated Kanna as a light TPA sub. And you’re also right that it comes down to personal preference in the end, as the ideal lead might be different for different people. My personal playstyle has always been about optimising the leads I enjoy playing the most, and less about getting flawless speed farming teams, so I guess our differing priorities also account for some of our different rankings. I would much rather do a half hour A3 run that I genuinely enjoy, than a 15-20 minute run that bored me.
This was a very informative discussion, so thank you!
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What exactly does the “Farming” tier list mean?
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Uhh… pretty much what it sounds like. Leaders that are capable of clearing the same content consistently, quickly and with minimal puzzling effort.
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my friend rolled ilm and a blonia but he sold them to get ra dra even though he can’t even do A3 nor does he have a team that even works with ra dra, thoughts?
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also his box is abysmal
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Definitely reroll :^)
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In all seriousness, it was a very bad decision. Ra Dragon has one of the shallowest and most narrow sub pools of all leads with all of the best board change options being 6-star GFEs or rare collab rolls. It’ll be difficult to cobble together a decent team, especially if his box is abysmal as you probably can’t just farm a Gainaut and Linthia and limp your way through the endgame. Ilm is actually a pretty nice lead so it’s unfortunate that she got sold.
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reroll :^)
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[*]
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Hello, Setsu
What is your take on Revo Bastet?
I have noticed that she is only on the Game8 tier list and none others. Is she just not relevant anymore?
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She’s fine, but any lead that doesn’t have some tankiness is fighting an unnecessary uphill battle.
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