Thoughts on the Tentative PCGF Voting Results

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2146 - Fall Wind Jasper Dragon Caller, KaedeOverall, I think NA did a great job voting. There isn’t a single horrible monster unlike the Lucifers, Green Odins and Neptunes of PCGFs past. There aren’t many snubs, either. Most of the top-tier leaders made it and so did the best subs for Ra and Yomi Dragon. Best of all Kaede made it, something I wasn’t anticipating. Such is the power of waifu, I suppose.

We don’t know the official results yet, but considering there are only 31 monsters in reasonable contention I think it’s safe to go ahead with making superficial opinions on the results. You can use the Reddit PCGF Resources thread to look up who likely made it.

Best Monster

Winner: DKali
1587 - Goddess of Power, Kali No surprise here; the voters are absolutely correct. DKali is the strongest sub in the game and basically has no weaknesses. Being a required sub for the best team in the game, Ra Dragon, only boosted her desirability.
Runner Up: LKali
1585 - Goddess of Secrets, Kali Kali’s light aspect isn’t nearly as overpowered, but she’s basically a requirement for light-rainbow teams, particularly Ra and Sakuya. It’s a bit boring that the Kalis are so important to the meta, but as long as rainbow teams have the highest ATK multipliers in the game there’s really no way to avoid it. Hopefully more options like Fat Chocobo and Volsungr become available to reduce the reliance on them.

Worst Monster

Winner: Blue Odin
364 - Odin, the War Deity BOdin’s awakenings are nice, but there aren’t any teams that want both rows and TPAs. Separately, Hermes is better for rows and Famiel is better for TPAs if only because their actives are better. This leaves his stats as his best attribute, but PAD currently demands a lot more out of a sub slot; stats can be made up through leader skills and latents where there’s no way to improve a bad active. However, if the worst monster in the godfest is BOdin then there’s really not much to complain about.
Runner Up: Sun Quan
1233 - Sun Quan It was a tough choice between him and Kushinadahime, but since Kushi provides an all around better effect I went with Sun Quan. He has long been overshadowed by Awoken Isis on rainbow teams and his damage enhance has very little value in a meta with triple digit multipliers stacked with multiple TPAs. The delay is still great, but this is supposed to be a collection of the best overall monsters, not niche role-players. There may be hope for him, though, if Christmas Sakuya gets a nice buff.

Most Overrated

Winner: Red Odin
1107 - Phantom God, Odin I guess people still don’t understand that ROdin’s only use is for farming, particularly for push button teams. He doesn’t become usable in that capacity until you get two and at 6-stars the average player has little chance of that. He does have niche utility for his poison, but like with Sun Quan we shouldn’t be voting for role-players. Whales should be quite happy he’s voted in, but for all other players ROdin is basically an MP voucher they can’t cash in due to the dream of getting another one.
Runner Up: Kanna
2147 - Sun Dragon Caller, Kanna Kanna definitely belongs in the PCGF, but landing in fourth place is questionable at best. She’s a great sub for lower-end players that are struggling to do damage, but at the game’s highest levels there’s really no place for her since top-tier teams already do more than enough. For these burst teams, utility and orb changes are the highest priority and a damage enhance simply has no place, even if it has triple TPAs.

Most Underrated

Winner: Haku
753 - Incarnation of Byakko, Haku I’d say Haku is on equal footing with the Kalis (maybe worse than DKali, maybe better than LKali) as a sub so her being within a few votes of not making it is mind boggling. When her awoken form was first released it seemed like she might be the worst of her sisters. Well, after GungHo deemed it a good idea to push dark bias once again — Yomi Dragon, Anubis, Yomi, Zaerog∞ — Haku was once again a core member to all of the best dark teams.
Runner Up: Vishnu
1334 - Vishnu Vishnu is so much better than Liu Bei that it’s not even funny, but the votes don’t reflect that. Where Liu Bei has wasted awakenings in a row and jammer resist, Vishnu has none and the utility his SBR and time extend bring can’t be ignored. His skyfall active is also underrated. I can see why Liu Bei is still popular, but it’s a shame that Bastet’s best sub didn’t get more love.

Biggest Surprise

Winner: Akechi Mitsuhide
2272 - Akechi Mitsuhide The entire Sengoku pantheon is quite strong, but I didn’t think NA would catch on so quickly, especially since their skill up fodder has yet to reach our region. Akechi is the most relevant of the bunch, working well on Typhon, Yomi Dragon and dark devil teams. I just never thought that alone would be enough to push him so high in the voting.
Runner Up: Okuninushi
807 - Okuninushi I had serious doubts Okuni would make it, but NA got it right and gave him the votes he deserved. He’s probably been getting a lot of attention lately as a Yomi Dragon sub, but he’s quite useful on a variety of teams for his solid awakenings and the utility his delay brings.

Biggest Snub

Winner: Ares
567 - Ares While Ra and Yomi Dragon’s best subs all received a good amount of votes, Shiva Dragon’s best sub wasn’t even close. I guess everyone is caught up in the Ra and Yomi Dragon hype and Shiva Dragon is basically a distant memory. People may regret not voting Ares and other fire subs like Yamato in once it rotates back into the MP Shop.
Runner Up: Lakshmi
238 - Lakshmi Water is in a terrible place right now so it’s no surprise that the entire element got shafted this PCGF, but Lakshmi only getting about 25 votes is criminal. Andromeda, Hermes, Karin, and Mori also received ridiculously little support. The PCGF must be a sad time for water-mains.

48 thoughts on “Thoughts on the Tentative PCGF Voting Results”

  2. I”m also a little amazed that Ares didn’t make it, have people just forgotten about Shivadra?

    I think a lot of whales, or Big Fish really wanted to vote in Rodin (myself included) If the last update to the txt is correct bludin got cut, but who knows.

    I’m not ~that~ surprised that we saw Okuni and Akechi make it, only because of YomiDra hype (recently hitting SS really shined the spotlight on him) I think if it were a month later they wouldn’t have made it.

    YomiDragon’s hype is somewhat justified by the MUCH easier to attain sub-pool. Haku+Okuni and either another yomidra or Akechi is quite a bit easier to get than 2x Dkali, Isis, Indra.

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  3. There were a few moments towards the end where both Vishnu and Haku were in the 31 spot and I was like WHAT IS WRONG WITH THE WORLD??? Fortunately everything worked out in the end, although I was pretty shocked that Ares and Urd were nowhere near the top 30, but Cao Cao and Kagutsuchi were. Particularly Urd, actually, since she’s a staple for Awoken Shiva, a good leader on her own, and fine for Shiva Dragon.

    Okuninushi was the only card I really cared about making it in, and there were some pretty scary moments, but in the end the PAD community came through for me. Debating roll or two in this DC just because I wouldn’t mind Ame no Uzume or DValk either, and Okuni has a better chance to appear now (I think that’s how it works?), but I think I have literally every other featured card, so it seems like a bad idea.

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    • Tier lists man… CaoCao is “s” in japan, except I don’t even see him on all the Awoken Shiva clears… the blind leading the blind on that “Subs” list lol.

      Urd is a hardcore staple on all the red teams (if you need a board swap, of course)… including Raoh (who pairs his active for a 2/3rds board.) Her awokens are worse than CaoCao’s, but she’s a much better card.. with both the relevant typings..

      It’s ok though, the sheep-like following of Tier lists helped us avoid anything that’s actually trash in the ‘fest so I’ll take it.

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      • To be fair, Cao Cao is probably the “best” A Shiva sub, along with Urd, so I think he’s fine making it in. I like Kagutsuchi, but he is definitely replaceable, and you don’t really want Cao Cao AND Kagutsuchi without Urd also (gg RCV). Also, all of Cao Cao’s awakenings are relevant, whereas Kagutsuchi is basically 3 TPA, 1 SB, and four troll awakenings (ok three, OEA is good). Basically, Kagu and Cao Cao fill a very similar roll (kill things), whereas Urd provides a different dimension (heal, board change), so I think it makes sense to have one of each, rather than two of one. On the other hand, Urd will be in (almost) every Godfest, so that probably hurt her when people were deciding what to vote for.

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        • I’d argue Set is better than both of them (also notably absent..) If i’m going to have way too long of a cooldown on my 1 color orb swap, I’d rather it actually kills something, and Awoken shiva’s multiplier really asks for a spike in this meta, but “meh” lol.

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    • this feels more like a reason not to run lakshimi, than it is a reason to run bludin on lakshimi (sorry…), but I get it I threw him on Skuld for the same reason.

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    • Yes, Kushi kinda blindsided everyone. She wasn’t even in the picture until a day or two left in the voting. I wouldn’t be surprised if someone stuffed the ballot box.

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  6. Really satisfied with the votes. Would gladly kick Sun Quan or Kushi for Blodin but, it seems they were too far ahead at the end and the closer ones(Vishnu, Cao Cao, etc.) are so much better that I really hope Blodin loses.

    As for Ares, I think the main thing is most people(myself included) probably only intend to buy one MP Dragon. In that case, Yomi Dragon seems the best value. If I were buying two, I’d consider Shiva+Ra Dragon but, this comes with the disadvantage that you have to choose which has more immediate value and risk the other falling out of relevancy by the time you can afford it.

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    • ADD-ON)Speaking of MP purchases, what do you think of the staying power of the Marionettes compared to that of their respective MP Dragons ie how do you think Charite will compare to Neptune Dragon in a year and so on?

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    • I doubt that’s the case because a lot of people bought Shiva Dragon already. When Shiva Dragon was released on NA Yomi Dragon was only released on JP a few days after and was pretty much regarded as garbage while Shiva Dragon was destroying everything except maybe the Arena. It’s only in the past month or so that Yomi Dragon has seen increased popularity on NA and JP. It’s more proof that people are easily swayed by the FotM.

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  7. I was using http://pcgf-temp.cloudapp.net/rank.txt as my PCGF tracker, so overrated Blue Odin might be out. Even though Venus was on the edge so often, she jumped in the end (an entire 2 votes). This is definitely the best voting I’ve seen so far. I look at the list and consider the 6-stars as ‘not likely to drop’, so I tell my friends it’s actually ‘top 25’. My vote did go to Okuni, although I would have voted Mitsuhide, too. As someone who pulled 5 Ronia, 5 Urd and 5 Verdandi, I’m glad two of them didn’t get in. The way the votes fell off from 300 to nothing really shows the focus of the current meta.I was expecting closer votes for #25 to #35, not #11 to #31.

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    • I used that site too, but there was a lot of movement in the last few minutes that it didn’t capture. It’s very possible that there’s a tie situation like last time, so it should be interesting to see who gets in.

      The voting was basically as last time with at least 15-30 being within a few votes of each other. This is what happens when you make the results visible, allowing people to game the system. The voting should really be like JP where no one knows the results until the voting period has ended. This also decreases the chances of someone being able to accurately stuff the ballot to avoid suspicion.

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  8. That was actually fun watching the results over the week and having a top 31 constantly made me wonder who 31 would be considering top 11 to 31 were fluctuating between 10 votes difference. Ive spent all my stones for DC to get either Yomi or Shiva dra subs, so Im only rolling one for PCGF.

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  10. I don’t agree about kanna or sunnyquan.

    The former sees play on Hathor, which nobody cares about, but is also on ra dragon instead of Indra for the Kali…. Paprika did it.
    Maybe that’s how you define overrated, but being able to skimp out on latents is wonderful.

    The lkali team, while no longer… Amazing… Is still really popular, and the optimal sub is probably sun to cover that dreaded b/g slot. Lkali is a healer, her team runs like.. Lkali lkali dkali sunny, filler, lkali.
    Assuming the filler isn’t a healer, that’s still four healers, and a two turn delay.
    Kush is much more overrated, being subpar Indra, and susanno.

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    • Those are some silly reasons. Kanna on Ra Dragon instead of Indra leaves you with 80% SBR, not something you’re going to clear the Arena with on a consistent basis. Using Parprika or any of the puzzling masters as a basis for what is good or bad is silly as well; they can clear just about any dungeon with any reasonable lead. In the end you really gave no reasons why Kanna isn’t overrated.

      LKali is a popular lead, but that doesn’t make her a good lead. This blog only really cares about what’s good in perspective of the endgame. If Sun Quan is only marginally good on this caliber of team then I’m going to rate him as bad. Also, Kali doesn’t need to cover wood and there are plenty of other good water options.

      Finally, do you understand what overrated means? Kushi barely made it while Kanna is sitting near the top of the voting. Thus, overrated. Not saying Kushi is any good, though.

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      • Paprika ran Shiva dragon on that team over a dkali.
        And using them as a basis is what forms the core of most people’s play.
        I gave a great reason, because she fits on radra. I don’t know how many people play that team though..

        I had some mixups on sq, but… Your argument is silly. You often talk about things that aren’t end game (farmable monster analysis, rating godfests…), but even beyond that, lkali is ranked a as a lead.
        B
        There’s lots of good water options, but not if you want to pair with another, better lead, like radra, ara, asakuya… Worst monster is most likely kush, or Venus.

        Going back to what you talk about, it’s clearly not exclusivly end game, nor was this post ever titled as such..

        PS: I’d argue that being able to skip around 60k mp is pretty nice…

        Pss: if Venus has some strange use I missed let me know. I run her on wukong, but that’s only for Friday… Heroes really dropped off the lead train.

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        • Shiva Dragon only has one SBR, meaning the team still only has 80% SBR (I’m actually pretty curious about this clear at this point, would you mind sharing the link?). Simply fitting on Ra Dragon isn’t a great reason. By that logic, anything that one of the best players in the game can use on a Ra Dragon team is good. All I care about is the best in the endgame and Kanna is far from the best. At least in Kanna’s case it isn’t a matter of whether she’s good or bad — I think she’s very good — but whether she’s overrated and in the context of this voting I think she is.

          Everything I talk about on this blog is in the context of the endgame unless otherwise specified, even the farmable monster analysis and godfest ratings. I have no reason to blog about anything in any other context since that’s all I know and care about. It’d actually be disingenuous of me to try to relate to what players not in the endgame have to go through since I have no context. Whenever I give advice it’s always in the context of what has the most potential value for the endgame.

          Isis is almost always better than Sun Quan for water/wood coverage on rainbow teams. There’s also Orochi and Muse, not amazing options, but it’s not like there’s a severe lack of usable ones. I agree that Kushi and Venus are bad, but Kushi has better general use just for the shield and Venus has a more irreplaceable effect. It was a judgment call, but in the end which I chose doesn’t mean they all relatively poor.

          If you’re siting Game8 as the source in reference to “lkali is ranked a as a lead”, then neither Kanna or Sun Quan make their recommended template teams for LKali or Ra Dragon, they’re merely nice options. Not that Game8 or any other tier list would be a convincing argument without actual reasons to back it up. LKali’s A+ rating is probably one of their worst overall calls on their leader list.

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            • The first video doesn’t show whether he survived or just faded earlier skill bind floors. At Kali, if they didn’t resist the skill bind short of a heart skyfall they would’ve died since they ran out of hearts.

              Ah, yes, I remember this Paprika clear. He states that not having a second DKali is not hopeless, not that it’s ideal and it certainly isn’t with only 80% SBR. Let’s see, he fades preemptive skill bind spawns on floors 2 (LIza), 6 (Ra Tama), 8 (Ceres), 19 (Hera-Is) and is fortunate enough to resist them on 10 (Leilan), 11 (LFagan), 14 (Leviathan), and once on DKali. Imagine if he got Hera-Is on 19 and got skill bound he would likely just die. Someone as good as Paprika has a higher chance to survive, but he’s far from the average player.

              So if you’re okay with being suboptimal and susceptible to skill binds, that’s cool. Personally, I’m not going to give a merit to a card for being a suboptimal Ra Dragon sub. I rather take the damage hit and run Loki over Kanna to be honest.

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  11. So tempted to roll, but row Sarasvati has been pulling me through every C9 and most C10s with 1-2 stones and Hermes, Mori, Blodin didn’t get in and we don’t even have Ryunne yet I’m not sure if I should since I’m non-IAP. Wish blue cards get more love 😦

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  12. While am not sure exactly who would be worse; maybe Idunn&Idunna, why her and no other Norse or Rodin, 4 rows will only get you so far without an orb changing/enhance Active. I question Sun Quan being on the worst list. For Awoken Amaterasu, somehow an A rank lead, Sun Quan is a pretty key sub for any Descend that doesn’t have a preemptive shield or is on a more than 1 turn timer. The 2x damage combined with 2 turn delay changes what is usually a 9x lead into 32x lead for two turns which is pretty key for an overall low damage leader/type.

    Even if SQ is off attribute and is only situationally viable she makes for a ~3.5x difference in damage multipliers for *two* turns. Obviously as you get closer to end game A.Ama’s lead ability starts to show weaknesses (poor selection of light healer orb changers, poor damage output), but it keeps her viable for much longer.

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    • If you’re using Amaterasu as the basis of your argument, Sandalphon, a farmable, is just as good if not better overall. Being on the worst list does not mean bad, it just means that he’s not critical for any endgame relevant teams.

      The I&I-Ryuune leader pair is one of the best in the game. ROdin is one of the most used farming leads and subs in the game, already giving him more use than Sun Quan. He’s also already on the overrated list.

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      • While it’s true I pick my friend lead based on my HP requirement of the descend, an A.Ama lead plays a bit like an LZL with better utility. Assuming a Max skilled Sandalphon the extra on-attribute damage and shield don’t make much of a difference if I can’t stay at 100% health. And SQs Green sub-Att synergizes well with A.Ama and Valk’s sub-Att allowing Green or Blue matches to help clear trash while saving precious Light orbs.

        And once again, for the Descends that it applies, a two turn delay is SO MUCH better than a 35% shield.

        Having a view that only end game leads and subs belong on this list is fairly myopic as many people aren’t there yet, and I argue SQ is a critical sub for a strong mid to early-late game lead.

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        • Not saying there aren’t valid alternative ways to play Amaterasu, but from what I can see she’s just a variation of a tank team. As long as she has enough HP to tank the hit, she’s basically unkillable. This means large hits are one of her biggest weaknesses which a damage shield can address better than a delay, especially when it comes to preemptives. Judging from this arena clear (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hxxyELF6qKY) you really don’t have to be at 100% at all times.

          The endgame is all this blog cares about and everything is written in that context. This isn’t a site that tries to cater to all player types, but it’s more like I hope my experience and opinions can inform other players or try to at least create a dialog. I try to be as accommodating to all play types as possible in the comments, especially when giving advice, but I can’t really give anything except endgame opinions since that’s all I know. That being said, I still find opinions from other perspectives to be valuable. While no arguments so far would make me regret my choice of putting Sun Quan where I put him, at least now I have a better understanding of why he’d be valuable to other types of players.

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          • Ahhhh well carry on then. Either way I wouldn’t/didn’t vote for SQ, I was just miffed at the “worst” rating.

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  13. A contender for the best non-MP-dragon lead is Awoken Ra. Awoken Ra really benefits from a blue/green monster. Awoken Ra really benefits from delay.

    Isis is still better than Sun Quan IMO, but currently I have no good green/blue subs, so having both of them in PCGF really boosts my chances of getting a good answer to the blue/green slot. I mean, I cleared a challenge dungeon with an _OGRE_ yesterday.

    So I voted for Sun Quan.

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  14. The way Gungho has costed Astaroth’s AS means they believe 4 turns of counterattack is about equivalent to 1 turn haste. Unless counterattack is now 100,000 times more powerful than before, I can’t blame anyone for being disappointed by what is most of the time just a 7 CD orb changer. Hell, PADX mentioned in the same update that Anubis’ will get the jammer/poison buff except his is base 5 CD, meaning Astaroth’s AS is strictly worse than a comparable Awoken monster’s!

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    • Anubis is at 8 turns unless he got an unexpected buff. I think he’d see a lot more play as a sub if he was at 5. But yes, counterattack is costed way too highly.

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    • For all of WordPress’s niceties, they don’t allow me to move comments. If you’d like you can remake your comment under the correct post and I can delete this one.

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  16. So now that Blodin appears to not be in the PCGF, is it safe to say this is one of, if not the best GFs of all time for end game teams?

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    • I think 4x GFEs was better for endgame just because DKali is that good, but outside that technicality this is probably the best overall godfest we’ve seen, yes.

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  17. It makes me kind of sad that (at the time of my voting) I was the only person that put a vote in for Yamato Takeru. Now I just hope I can pull an Isis+Dkali or another lkali for my Awoken Ra+ Super Mega Ultra Ra Chicken

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