Leads
| SS |  |
| S |         |
| A+ |           |
| A |            |
Subs
| S |        |
| A+ |           |
| A |                     |
Wow. That’s a lot of changes. I’m not going to attempt to cover everything so I’ll mostly try to address things from a high level, then pick out a few changes that stand out to me.
The Addition of the SS Leader Tier
Well, we all saw this happening a mile away ever since Game8 introduced it’s “insurmountable wall” that fractured the S rank leads. I somewhat agree with Ra Dragon being the first member since he’s so consistent at clearing the Kaliseum. The question is why fellow wallmate Anubis is not SS too, but I’ll just assume that the author was once again reminded that very few people can use him properly or consistently.
I think the SS tier should just be a temporary thing. As more powerful leaders are released and the endgame content gets harder, there’s no real reason to keep the old A’s around and you can just shift everything back down a grade. While it’s nice to be inclusive, there’s no point in potentially misleading by keeping outdated leads on the list.
Tiers Now Ordered By Element
This is an interesting, but necessary change. In the past, each tier had minor changes in order from update to update and I was led to believe that the order had some significance. Now we know for sure that it doesn’t.
Massive Sub Changes
I still think a sub list is rather futile to maintain, but at least my two biggest snubs from last week, Satsuki and Haku, have gotten a bit more respect. Other notable inclusions are Infinirog (who was fourth on my snub list) and the rest of the awoken Chinese. Notable changes are both Vishnu and Kanna making S rank. Sadly, Susano was not added to the list.
Unlike the leader list, I think it’s better to be more inclusive and I’m glad Game8 seems to be going this direction. While it’s near impossible to find a substitute for the capabilities of a certain leader, there are so many top tier sub choices that you’re doing a disservice to newer players by being exclusive. I mean, most veteran players would be able to recognize that Leilan and Karin were good, but for the less informed they may have gotten the idea that they weren’t based off this list.
The Ascension of Kanna
I didn’t much like Kanna when she was revealed and still don’t. However, now that she’s made A+ lead and S sub, I’m willing to rethink my stance.
I did think it was strange she didn’t make the leader list until now, but I guess my pride got in the way of bringing it up. Light dragons are indeed a thing and running Kanna with three or so Apocalypses is quite good.
Now, as a sub I have more of an issue. Most of the elite leads in the game (read: Awoken Ra and Ra Dragon) already overkill by a lot. The only real exception being the Kaliseum. However, it appears to be more consistent to use Indra and a few assorted latents to tank the Kali nuke rather than trying to burst her down to avoid it. Using Indra, you avoid the case where your board just isn’t good enough to do the requisite damage. I still see Kanna being very useful and powerful, but she’s just not a S rank sub in my mind; her applications are just too narrow.
Vishnu now S Tier Sub
I’m not sure what the impetus was to make him S tier from A, but I’m not opposed to the fact that he was. With NA being close to getting him, I’m contemplating having him replace Liu Bei on my Bastet team. His awakenings are far superior with a skill bind resist and a time extend. While I’ll miss Liu Bei’s active for burst turns, I won’t miss flooding out on wood orbs on many boards. I’m still undecided on Vishnu’s skyfall active until I use it some more, but it seems like a reasonable replacement. Also, Liu Bei is ugly.
I think the only real advantage Liu Bei has is his row and meager heal for hybrid Gon-son teams and his fire sub-attribute for Verdandi teams. Although, depending on how Verdandi’s uevo turns out that distinction could put Liu Bei clearly on top again.
Goemon Added to A Leads
I’m only somewhat aware of Goemon prowess as a lead as I really only use him for farming. I know he’s pretty good outside that role, but I don’t think anything changed to warrant his re-addition to this list after all this time. Can anyone enlighten me?
A Tale of Two Pandas
Summer Pandora was booted from the leader list while the pantheon version remains at A. I’d argue both should be removed, but even with Summer Pandora’s more flexible activation it appears that the extra row and skill boost are better as a leader.
Pantheon Pandora was booted from the A+ sub tier to A while Summer Pandora remained in A+. I’m guessing that the deciding factors were that TPAs are more relevant for Yomi and Infinirog and that they go well with Satsuki’s triple prongs. As both Yomi and Infinirog are on my to-do list, I’m glad I got that Summer Pandora. I’m also glad I’ll finally be able to hypermax her this event.
Awoken Amaterasu Added to the Sub List
Just look at her awakenings. Then her active. How was she ever left off the list? I generally think bind clearers are too niche to be considered great, but both Awoken Amaterasu (heal, haste) and Isis (damage shield, short cooldown) bring enough to the table otherwise to be excellent overall subs.
Did I miss something? Please leave a comment and let me know!
Setsu's PAD Blog 
Welp, I was on the fence about Ra Dragon when he was first announced. I mean, how much more damage do I really need to do? I’ve got the optimal cookie cutter A.Ra team that is blowing through everything.
Being consistent at Kaliseum may be the kicker since I don’t really have the time to farm Pii. So this may be a good way to supplement the Piis get from Challenge Dungeons and Stream rewards. But I do have 3 Dkali so I can go all in or use other utility subs.
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Yeah, I think you should take advantage of your 3 DKalis with Ra Dragon if you have the resources to do so.
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Goemon’s uevo was always good, I think he’s a bit undervalued in NA because he needs to be max skilled to be effective, which seems difficult for many players outside of the upper echelons of rank/IAP.
Anyway, if I had to guess, the gradual addition of new haste actives has eased the need for 3 skill boost subs or stalling for his active. He makes for record times in many descends and deserves a mention, but as an HP conditional he’s still somewhat situational, hence the A ranking. Also no skill bind resist limits him further and he doesn’t have much to compensate, his awakenings simply don’t measure up to the other leads.
Despite all that I agree with the author, he has a place, at least until more leads are added.
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I was vaguely aware of most of the things you’ve mentioned, but now hearing them through someone else’s words it makes a lot more sense. Thanks for the info!
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I found several streamers to be entirely replacing the idea of 2x Liu Bei for 2x Vishnu. Part of the reason he is S tier is likely due to having 2 of him equals a permanent 15% boost and unlike Sarasvati and other similar effects, he still has the 3-TPA to maintain the damage. With the way A.Bastet players being able to clear almost the entire board every turn, the permanent 15% is a pretty big deal, it takes away the eternal need for orb changers.
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If you’re talking about Bastet teams, I think 2 Liu Beis or 2 Vishnus are suboptimal sub choices. Liu Bei is really only good for breaking high defense monsters and has a mediocre active on Bastet so you only needed one. 2 Vishnus are overkill now that hastes are more common. With two hastes (Kaede, Meimei, GSonia, etc) you can have as little as 1 turn of Vishnu buff downtime over 7 turns. I can see value in running 2 Vishnus for farming purposes, but who realistically farms with Bastet? I’m not trying to downplay the value of the permanent 15%, but on Bastet I don’t think it’s worth it.
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I noticed Kite is now S Rank, will we ever get him?
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I sure hope so since that’d mean we get Gon too. In reality, the chances are slim. Not having Kite is somewhat mitigated by Awoken Yomi, but the Batmen don’t quite measure up to Gon and Killua — yet.
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Yeah I passed on Batman cuz they just don’t stackup, but I would roll shamelessly for Kite…Haha
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“Changes from 9/1: Ra Dragon S→SS, Neptune Dragon A+→S, Kite A+→S, Kanna added to A+, Goemon added to A, Summer Pandora removed, Skuld removed, Killua removed”
Something surprising, I actually AGREE with all of these changes… First time that’s happened in some time. Radra is clearly SS. His team is stupidly expensive, but if you can make it, you pretty much win the game. I’m also surprised that AAnubis isn’t SS, but I think he’ll eventually be bumped up.
I’ve been saying all along that Nepdra is S tier. He’s got a 30% arena clear rate according to a JP friend, which is significantly higher than almost any other team. Only teams that outdo him in arena are Radra, (I’m using the TAMADRA shortening of dragon, I like it better, rolls off the tongue a lot better IMO.) AAnubis (maybe, depends on the player of course.), ARa, and that cheese team with Awilda and charity. Aside from that, he’s a stronger Lakshmi that plays like Andromeda. I mean, the number of rows on an ideal hero team used to be 6-8, and the leaders ALONE bring that to the table XD.
Summer Panda is/was a novelty leader. She wasn’t designed for hard content, so I’m not surprised she got the boot. I AM surprised that normal Panda is still on the list, but that’s gonna change very shortly I suspect.
Skuld was never an A tier lead IMO. She was arguably the second best blue lead behind Lakshmi (third if we include Nepdra), and I suspect that that’s why she was on the list, just to maintain SOME semblance of blue prescence on the list.
Killua was a flash in the pan. A bit of power, but not enough to stick around.
So yeah. Good on them for once. Subs list is still whack, but getting better.
And lastly: Tiers Now Ordered By Element
about damn time.
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Yup, I didn’t question the Neptune Dragon promotion since you previously stated he was probably S tier already. It’s hard to deny the power of those rows and leader skill.
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Where is the information on Arena clear %? I’m really interested to see whats actually clearing with high consistency.
I have to agree that this list looks more in line with what I’d expect to see.
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Hey Setsu,
I noticed Satsuki is S rated on the subs list, and Akechi is at A, but with respect to Typhon, would you consider Akechi > Satsuki? I still might roll for an Akechi, but I just don’t know how much I need to roll since I somehow rolled two Satsukis last GF.
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This is pretty much why tier lists are looked down upon. If you ignore the silly grades and stop to think about it for a bit, Akechi is obviously a superior Typhon sub. Not only does his active generate hearts which are necessary for activating Typhon’s leader skill, but it also interacts favorably with his board change, giving you a board of half dark, half hearts. Then add to the fact that you’re likely filling out the rest of the team with Pandoras so Akechi’s rows are superior to TPAs just for the synergy. Not to say Satsuki is bad, but Akechi is clearly better.
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Thank you, somehow I felt the same, but I didn’t want to roll a ton more just for him. The dark enhance for Akechi also ups the damage, but I got confused why they gave Typhon a TPA for 1 of his awoken skills. So maybe they want him to be TPA? but then they also gave him a row enhance so I think even GH doesn’t know what they want for that guy.
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I think they mainly do that to give the leaders flexibility and encourage a variety of builds. This is a standard in good game design: giving players cues towards certain play styles they may have otherwise missed.
Take Gon, for instance. He has 1 TPA and 2 rows. Many/most of his teams are TPA-based. Now take the TPA away from him. Not much actually changed, just a slight damage loss from your leaders, but I think most of the less-informed players would only see him as a row lead instead. The TPA is there to say: hey, you can do this too.
Not to say there’s a Typhon TPA build since at least one Akechi is absolutely necessary to run the team in an endgame capacity, but at least there’s that option in the future. Maybe Akechi gets TPAs with his uevo; unlikely, but it’s a possibility. Then him and Summer Pandora could for the basis of a decent Typhon TPA team.
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