JP Aggregate Leader List: Trial Week 7

Posted on March 27, 2016 by setsu

JP Aggregate Leader List β

**Changes from last time**: Yomi Dragon 2➞3, Freyr ❀➞4, Yomi 4➞❀, Ragnarok Dragon removed from ❀, Linka removed from ❀
**Legend**: Popular on Pad-Plus, ❀: Honorable Mention Tier
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❀

I’m short on time so I’m going to keep my comments short. Luckily, there wasn’t too much movement this week. I decided to tweak the tier thresholds again which resulted in Freyr making tier-4 while not having any movement on the lists.

Currently, cards on the Pad-Plus popularity list will be added to the honorable mention tier if they don’t appear on any other list. I’m strongly considering removing this functionality.

JP Aggregate Leader List β Changes of Note

Card	Notes
	Change: 2➞3 Game8 finally followed suit and downgraded Yomi Dragon resulting in a fall to tier-3. The reason it isn’t on the same tier as Neptune Dragon is because GameWith put it in their B-tier. I don’t know if many would agree with that, but either way there’s no contesting that Yomi Dragon is no longer on the same level as Ra Dragon (and hasn’t been for a long time).
	Change: 4➞❀ Game 8 removed Yomi from their list.

New Card Holding Tank

New cards will be held here temporarily in an attempt to isolate the aggregate list from knee-jerk ratings.
Card	Notes
	Ranked Sites: Game8 (A) Despite the lack of an HP or RCV multiplier, Lightning is a fairly strong lead. Her damage is obviously great at 126x — with the possibility of stacking rows — and the healing is somewhat similar to a Sakuya team by virtue of the healer type. However, her biggest asset might be how strong her active is in Arena 2. If NA gets the FF Collab again, the value of her active for skill inheritance is so high that the collab REM will still be worth rolling even if we get a delay like last time (I sure hope not, though).
	Ranked Sites: AppMedia (S) Yuna actually plays similar to Lightning — high multiplier with the possibility of stacking rows, no HP or RCV multiplier but still has respectable healing — but trades activation flexibility for a weaker multiplier. It’s that flexibility paired with a still very nice 64x that makes her surprisingly strong. Instead of having to dedicate slots to Kali board changes, she can focus on utility subs which only gets more valuable when you factor skill inheritance. AppMedia currently has her at S which might be a little ambitious so I’m curious if she’ll make any of the other lists.
	Ranked Sites: AppMedia (S-) Unlike the previous two, Sephiroth has a severely constrained sub pool, but in return he gets an RCV multiplier. He also lines up incredibly well for soloing Machine Zeus. I haven’t totally bought in to him being an elite endgame lead — I’m skeptical any of the FF cards are, to be honest; great, yes, but not elite — but the raw power is definitely there.

Jump to: Game8 | GameWith | GameWith Farming | AppMedia | Pad-Plus

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JP Aggregate Leader List: Trial Week 6

Posted on March 19, 2016 by setsu

JP Aggregate Leader List β

**Changes from last time**: Shiva Dragon 3➞4, Bastet 4➞❀, Kite 4➞❀, Linka added to ❀, most of the Honorables Mentions were removed
**Legend**: Popular on Pad-Plus, ❀: Honorable Mention Tier
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❀

More huge changes. Game8 got rid of their old A-tier and shifted A+ down to A. In response to both Game8 and GameWith contracting their lists — changes that I highly endorse — I decided to only include AppMedia’s S-tier. This, once again, forced to me to slightly tweak the aggregate scoring algorithm. For better or worse, outside of most of the Honorable Mentions being dropped there weren’t many changes.

Linka. I’ve received a surprising amount of questions about this card on this site and elsewhere even though, outside waifu reasons, she’s fairly useless. Is she bad? No, but certainly not worth 200k MP. Anyways, the point is she’s only appearing on this list by way of her ranking on the Pad-Plus popularity list. Cute is everything.

The future of this post series. Coming into the sixth week, I’m a little disappointed that I’m still making adjustments to the scoring system. I guess it can’t be helped if the underlying tier lists keep making big changes, but I was hoping I could settle on one thing then ride it for a long time. I’m unsure when I’ll take the list out of it’s current beta/trial version, but I may just have to accept that I’ll have to keep adjusting things as I go.

JP Aggregate Leader List β Changes of Note

Card	Notes
	Change: 3➞4 Shiva Dragon didn’t have any movement on any of the lists this week, but was a casualty of the updated scoring scheme. To be honest, it’s probably worse than everything else in tier-4 as far as the endgame is concerned.
	Change: 4➞❀ Similar to Shiva Dragon, Bastet and Kite were also victims of the new scoring scheme. As much as I love Bastet, I can’t argue with her new placement.
	Change: Added to ❀ She’s only on the list due to the Pad-Plus popularity list.
	Change: Removed from ❀ List of cards removed from the honorable mention tier: Shiva, NY Horus, Bouya, Gadius, Horus, RKali, Hayashida, Lakshmi, Gon, Ilm, NY Kanna, Hathor, NY Amaterasu, Amaterasu, Kanna, Yuria, Sun Wukong, Fenrir, DMeta, Typhon, HKali, Eschamali, Gran Reverse, Levi. Can’t say I have a problem with any of them (but Lakshmi will live on in my heart).

Jump to: Game8 | GameWith | GameWith Farming | AppMedia | Pad-Plus

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JP Aggregate Leader List: Trial Week 5

Posted on March 12, 2016 by setsu

JP Aggregate Leader List β

**Changes from last time**: Yomi Dragon 1➞2, Shiva Dragon 2➞3, Raoh 2➞3, Freyr 2➞❀, Rukia 2➞3, AD Lucifer 2➞3, Bastet 3➞4, Ra 3➞4, Ushio & Tora 3➞4, Sakuya 3➞4, Yomi 3➞4, Kite 3➞4, Sylvie ❀➞4, Freyja ❀➞4, Ichigo ❀➞4, Hathor added to ❀, Fenrir added to ❀
**Legend**: Popular on Pad-Plus, ❀: Honorable Mention Tier
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❀

Introduction: This is an attempt to aggregate the various JP leader lists, hopefully resulting in a more consistent list. On top of the usual skepticism associated with tier lists, take this list with a grain of salt as I’m still tweaking the aggregation method. I try to address any anomalies in the post, so please read it in its entirety before asking questions.

Notes: GameWith rocked the boat this week, so I took the opportunity to make a few changes to the way the aggregate list is compiled. First, I reworked the impact a non-grade has on a given card’s score. Previously, a single site not grading a card made it impossible to place in a numbered tier. It will still be difficult, but at least now there’s a chance (see: Ichigo, who still isn’t graded by GameWith). Second, I added a fourth numbered tier. Now that Ra Dragon is once again the undisputed best leader in the game, it belongs in its own tier. Lastly, I changed the way leader pairs are processed. This won’t make much difference from a reader’s viewpoint, but I made several under-the-hood changes to improve support. With all these changes in mind, please use your discretion when evaluating the tiers and changes.

GameWith: I’ll go over the GameWith changes more in its own section, but in addition to making some huge changes, they took farming proficiency out of their leader list equation entirely and instead made a separate farming list.

JP Aggregate Leader List β Changes of Note

Card	Notes
	Change: 1➞2 GameWith took the initiative and downgraded Yomi Dragon which resulted in it being booted out of the rarefied air now solely occupied by Ra Dragon. This is particularly relevant to NA as we just got Arena 2 where Yomi Dragon just doesn’t cut it anymore. Yes, Yomi Dragon is still one of the best Arena 1 leaders in the game, but if the endgame is to be measured by Arena 2 then this downgrade makes sense. Whether Arena 2 is a fair representation of the endgame, well, that’s another story. Then there’s the possible impact of skill inheritance, but that’s an issue that’ll have to be addressed at a later date.
	Change: 2➞3 Game8 is now the only list that champions Shiva Dragon as an endgame lead (although AppMedia is on the fence). While it’s one of my most used teams, I’ve never once used Shiva Dragon to clear endgame content, if that makes any difference.
	Change: 2➞3 It looks like the love affair with Raoh has been cut short. GameWith’s downgrade makes a lot of sense since they took farming out of the equation, but AppMedia’s backpedaling is reminiscent of Game8’s. I overall agree with this new position.
	Change: 2➞❀ Game8 and GameWith broke Raoh’s association with Freyr which is something I wholeheartedly agree with and even argued for last week. Basically, the Freyr leader pair is just a tool in Raoh’s arsenal, but isn’t critical to the team’s success.
	Change: 2➞3 Rukia’s downgrade is a result of my fiddling with the aggregate scoring system; there was no movement on any of the tier lists.
	Change: 2➞3 I’ve seen a number of debates on Lucifer vs. Pandora, most of which are unconvincing either way. This is usually reflective of them being on the same level or a gross misevaluation by the players. At the very least GameWith seems to think Pandora is significantly better.
	Change: 3➞4 Tier-4 was basically created for Bastet, Ra, Sakuya, and Yomi; once elite leaders who are still great, but can’t compete at the highest levels anymore. Tier-3 and above only include cards that have HP and/or RCV multipliers which is telling of where the endgame meta is shifting (although I can’t really explain Anubis).
	Change: ❀➞4 Ichigo still isn’t rated by GameWith, but my scoring changes allowed him to make tier-4. At this point it’s questionable whether they’ll grade him at all; the last time something was in their holding tank this long was Ragnarok Dragon who ended up not making it.

Jump to: Game8 | GameWith | GameWith Farming | AppMedia | Pad-Plus

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JP Aggregate Leader List: Trial Week 4

Posted on March 5, 2016 by setsu

JP Aggregate Leader List β

**Changes from last time**: Shiva Dragon 1➞2, Neptune Dragon 1➞2, Raoh 3➞2, Freyr 3➞2, Rukia ❀➞2, Shiva 3➞❀, Gon 3➞❀, Ilm 3➞❀, Juggler 3➞❀, Levi 3➞❀, Yamato Takeru removed from ❀, Goemon removed from ❀, Vegito removed from ❀, Scarlet removed from ❀, Andromeda removed from ❀, Osiris removed from ❀, Perseus removed from ❀, LKali removed from ❀, Fenrir removed from ❀, Pandora removed from ❀
**Legend**: Popular on Pad-Plus, ❀: Honorable Mention Tier
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I’m releasing the list a bit early this week since I found some free time today that I may not have on Monday.

Both GameWith and AppMedia made significant changes to their lists this week which really shook up the aggregate list. AppMedia decided to be extra annoying by slightly redoing their tier structure and page layout. Since I had to make changes to the aggregation script to accomodate, I decided to add some slight scoring tweaks to hopefully improve the score normalization between the different lists. As always, I want to avoid being results-oriented, but I’m pretty happy with the list this week.

JP Aggregate Leader List β Changes of Note

Card	Notes
	Change: 1➞2 AppMedia downgraded both Shiva and Neptune Dragons. Most would agree with Shiva, but I’m sure there are those that would argue against Neptune.
	Change: 3➞2 Both GameWith and AppMedia upgraded Raoh in the same week, so I’m wondering if there’s something I’m missing. The only recent change I’m aware of is uuevo Yamato (who is both a good sub and leader pair) which is nice, but that can’t be the only thing. There’s a lot of videos using him to farm Jormungand, but I doubt that’s it, either. If anyone has any clue, please let me know! In my opinion, Raoh is the best collab leader in the game — although the Bleach Collab puts that assertion to the test — and one of my personal favorites so I’m glad he’s getting some love. I’m not sure if he’s quite at the level of the MP Dragons, but he’s about as close as it gets.
	Change: 3➞2 Apparently Freyr also comes along for the ride. The other Norse leader pairs make sense to be tied together so closely, but Raoh is so much better than the Dragonbounds outside the Norse pairing that I’m not sure packaging him with Freyr is correct. A Raoh pair is amazing for non-Arena content and Scarlet and Yamato are other capable leader pairs; Freyr is just another tool at Raoh’s dispsoal, not a critical component.
	Change: ❀➞2 Rukia was finally graded by both GameWith and AppMedia, leading to her promotion. I’m fine with where she settled. Now we wait for Ichigo to be graded by GameWith (or I update the scoring algorithm to compensate).
	Change: 3➞❀ Shiva joins Lakshmi and Parvati in being omitted from GameWith’s list, leading to his demotion to the honorable mention tier.
	Change: 3➞❀ The tier lists took one step closer to putting this cancer in the rear-view mirror. inb4 uevo with 1.5x to team stats, SBR, three rows and god killer (because why not).
	Change: Removed from ❀ I argued that AppMedia’s ratings of the uuevo Heroes was a bit ambitious, but leaving them off their entire list is somewhat surprising. They could’ve easily been put lower on their A-tier or even B-tier. Considering Wukong is still at A and Summer Pandora is still in their B-tier, this can only be an oversight by the maintainer; they probably wanted to downgrade them, but forgot to put them back on the list altogether. Even minor misses like this really lower a list’s credibility, so if you weren’t already taking these ratings with a grain of salt, now you have an actual reason to do so.
	Change: Removed from ❀ Fenrir was removed because I omitted the AppMedia A- tier from the aggregation. Judging from videos demonstrating his new leader skill, I don’t expect him to return. It’s almost humorous how much work you have to do and RNG you have to work around to get barely any damage in return.

Jump to: Game8 | GameWith | AppMedia | Pad-Plus

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JP Aggregate Leader List: Trial Week 3

Posted on February 29, 2016 by setsu

JP Aggregate Leader List β

**Changes from last time**: Yamato Takeru added to ❀, Bouya Harumichi added to ❀, Gadius added to ❀, Rukia added to ❀, Sun Wukong added to ❀, Typhon added to ❀, Gran Reverse added to ❀, Pandora added to ❀, Ichigo added to ❀
**Legend**: Popular on Pad-Plus
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A boring update where pretty much nothing changed. I actually expect most iterations of this list to be like that. At the very least, monitoring these lists on a weekly basis should give me a better idea how often they update.

All the noted changes are cards being moved from the holding tank to the actual list. The only change this week was GameWith adding Typhon to their B-tier. Which is somewhat disappointing since GameWith and AppMedia still have to rank Ichigo and Rukia; their absence from those lists is the only reason they’re stuck in the honorable mention tier.

Jump to: Game8 | GameWith | AppMedia | Pad-Plus

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JP Aggregate Leader List: Trial Week 2

Posted on February 22, 2016 by setsu

JP Aggregate Leader List β

**Changes from last time**: Sakuya 2➞3, Anubis 2➞3, Bouya Harumichi removed from ❀
**Legend**: Popular on Pad-Plus
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As could be anticipated with the recent stream updates and Bleach Collab, there were plenty of changes in the past couple of days which made this a good time to test out my script again. Game8 made some significant changes, handing out demotions to meta staples. There’s now a clear line between the top and the rest of the rabble: those without an RCV multiplier will languish.

Having only two entries at tier 2 is somewhat concerning, but I’m still going to wait a while to see how it turns out once the rest of the lists catch up with their updates.

Updates going forward: I’m contemplating running these posts weekly on Monday evenings. JP uevo updates usually go live on Fridays so that should give them three good days to marinate. Pad-Plus also updates their popularity list Sundays so I can pull in that list while it’s still fresh. Of course, collabs usually go live on Mondays, so in the case of there being impactful cards I’ll consider doing a mid-week post.

JP Aggregate Leader List β Changes of Note

Card	Notes
	Change: 2➞3 This change is a good example of the weakness of the aggregate list and tier lists in general. Sakuya is clearly better than almost all other options in tier 3, but the binning ranges don’t allow that to be reflected. I considered adding another tier to increase the granularity, but after thinking about it I feel things are fine as they are. It would only tarnish the integrity of the list by being results-oriented (assuming there was any integrity to be had with a tier list in the first place), but I actually like how the tiers have played out this week.
	Change: 2➞3 No one will argue Anubis’s damage potential, but this is where he has belonged for a long time due to his inconsistency. With all the time extends nowadays it’s not even really about skill, it’s that you can’t activate him on most boards.
	Change: Removed from ❀ This is another example of Game8’s auto-generated A-tier not reflecting what the maintainers of the list want; Bouya should still be at A.

New Card Holding Tank

New cards will be held here temporarily in an attempt to isolate the aggregate list from knee-jerk ratings.
Card	Notes
	Ranked Sites: Game8 (A+) Rukia is making combo gods like Anubis, Bastet, Shiva, and Yomi look quite silly. Eight combos is demanding for most players, but seven combos still puts you at Bastet levels of damage — and you get 1.5x RCV on top of it.
	Ranked Sites: Game8 (A+) Unlike Gadius, Typhon has always been a solid endgame leader and his uevo only solidifies his place. Also, unlike Gadius, you can both clear binds and fully activate in the same turn.
	Ranked Sites: Game8 (A+) As expected, Ichigo is one of the top leaders in the game, but isn’t quite as impressive as it might’ve seemed. Watching videos for him is hilarious: the healing animation will jump from like 2k → 3k → 4k → 5k → 50k.
	Ranked Sites: Game8 (A) Game8 has always had a hard-on for Gadius, but I’m not convinced he’s all that much better than before.
	Ranked Sites: AppMedia (A+) I can’t say I agree with AppMedia’s ratings of all the Hero uuevos. They’re very strong, but leaders without HP and/or RCV multipliers and top out at an orb-hungry 25x ATK seem to be at an extreme disadvantage. Today’s endgame just puts so much emphasis on utility and resilience, something that these Hero teams will struggle with. I feel they’re outclassed by almost everything else in the AppMedia A+ tier.

Jump to: Game8 | GameWith | AppMedia | Pad-Plus

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JP Aggregate Leader List: Trial Week 1

Posted on February 18, 2016 by setsu

JP Aggregate Leader List β

**Legend**: Popular on Pad-Plus, ❀: Honorable Mention Tier
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With 10x coming in a couple hours, I don’t intend to blog much in the coming week. With that in mind, I wanted to try out the new format for my tier list series of posts even if it may be a bit premature. I’ve been working on the scripts to gather the data and generate the HTML for the past couple of weeks and this is what I have so far. I already have ideas for enhancements and new features, but for now I’ll wait and see how things go. Although I can say already that the amount of time and effort I’ve saved on this post alone has made all the work so far worth it.

As you can see, my attempt to mitigate the pain of solely relying on Game8 as the source of these posts was to rope other questionable JP tier lists into the mix. This aggregate table is essentially the average of all included tier lists. Since the grading scale of each list is not 1:1, I had to tweak the algorithm to translate and compensate. That judgment call is about as close as I want to get to making my own tier list, ever. It’s definitely a work in progress, though, so I’ll be adjusting it as the weeks go on and I’m able to see how it deals with new cards and changes in the meta. For those that still want to directly reference the original lists, I have summaries and links to the originals later in the post.

The first judgment call you may have noticed is the omission of an “SS” tier where Ra Dragon and sometimes Yomi Dragon have lived for the past few months. Like I said, it’s a work in progress, but I don’t actually think an SS tier is necessary anymore, at least not until the details of skill inheritance are revealed (in a few hours?).

Next are the tier names. I actually wanted to use labels that were a bit more cryptic, but I thought about it for a while and trying to sever association with traditional tier lists through ham-fisted obfuscation made me think “why even make a tier list at all?”. I still did want to distance the aggregate list from the JP lists even if superficially, so instead of using letters, I’ll be using numbers: simple and easy to understand. For those curious, the “❀” tier is reserved for all cards that were mentioned in at least one list, but didn’t accumulate enough points to be put into an actual tier.

There’s also the addition of the Pad-Plus leader popularity list. I want to stress: this list has absolutely no weight in the aggregate tier list, but is instead used to indicate which leaders are popular according to the site. While popularity may mean little to some, I still find it interesting to know what’s currently trending on JP.

There’s more I’d like to cover, but I’ll end it here for now. Tier list posts still seem futile, but at the very least I had fun putting all the parts together. If you know of any other JP tier list that you think would make a worthy addition, please let me know in the comments. I’m already considering Altema, but since they have a top 15 list instead of the standard tiers, I’m unsure of how to work it into the aggregate.

New Card Holding Tank

One of my biggest gripes with Game8 was their penchant for overrating new cards that they simply didn’t have enough information on (actually, the converse happened more often, but was less offensive, to me anyways). To combat this, I’m removing all new cards from the aggregate list and putting them into the holding tank for discussion. For now the duration is one week, but I could see extending it if some of the lists are slow to update.

New cards will be held here temporarily in an attempt to isolate the aggregate list from knee-jerk ratings.
Card	Notes
	Ranked Sites: Game8 (A) Rukia – Game8’s A-tier is automatically generated from the site-wide ratings, meaning Rukia, rated at A, got added to the list because the side added a score before they had a chance to update the entire tier list. I say this because it’s highly likely that Ichigo — who looks amazing — would at least be A+, but was not added as of yet. As for Rukia, without knowing the combo requirement for her full 5x, she still looks pretty solid and finally gives water a competitive combo lead. The Yuna awakenings are somewhat unfortunate, but the active is quite good and, perhaps most importantly, she gives Scheat a place to shine: 5x TPAs and that active with a 56.25x combo god sounds pretty amazing. The RCV boost is also quite welcome in one of the elements to most easily accumulate natural HP. I think Game8’s rating might be on the conservative side, but only time will tell.
	Ranked Sites: AppMedia (A+) The original Sonia Gran was still a decent leader so any upgrades are a huge help. The two Grans make a good pair and mixing and matching gives you some flexibility when tackling certain dungeons. The dragon sub pool has improved a bit since the original’s brief time in the spotlight, the most prominent being Kanna, Awoken Susano, Awoken Orochi, and Ragnarok Dragon; not to mention farmables in Linthia and Gainot. However, no matter how you slice it 36x rainbow is just plain underwhelming these days. I think AppMedia’s rating is a bit ambitious.

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Thoughts on the Game8 JP Tier List 2/3/16

Posted on February 2, 2016 by setsu

Leads

Changes from 2/1: Awoken Pandora A+→S
SS
S
A+
A

Subs

Changes from 2/1: None.
SS
S
A+

The Game8 list

It’s times like these that I want to stop these Game8 posts. I don’t know what’s worse: that they would misevaluate Pandora at A+ or that they’d so easily retract their original opinion and move her to S.

To clarify, whether they’re right or wrong with this change is irrelevant because, yes, opinions are opinions. What I want from any source is a certain level of assurance that their opinion is well researched and reflects their best effort was put forth to develop said opinion. Releasing an opinion the same day of a card’s release then revising it a couple days later does not inspire confidence in their opinion. It smells of them making a knee-jerk opinion then following it up with another one. What actually happened here is irrelevant because not only will we never know, it’s the appearances that matter because it affects how I perceive all of their opinions. Game8 has had a dubious reputation for a while now, but something like this particularly disappoints me. Who’s to say that this new grade was well researched? Who’s to say any of their opinions are well researched? Well, this may just be me making a mountain out of a molehill, but these Game8 posts have been questionable for a while so I’ll take any excuse to end them.

Anyone have some suggestions for other tier lists? I’ve been kinda following GameWith and they seem okay, but they don’t seem to update very often. I know there were some other sites, but I never bookmarked them. I guess in the end they’re all basically the same.

Thoughts on the Game8 JP Tier List 2/1/16

Posted on February 1, 2016 by setsu

Leads

Changes from 1/27: Awoken Pandora debuts at A+
SS
S
A+
A

Subs

Changes from 1/27: None. Cao Cao still not appearing at A+, removing him until they add him back (if ever). **2/2: Pandora added to A+**
SS
S
A+

The Game8 list

It’s no surprise that Pandora made the leader list, especially since she appears to be similar to Lucifer at first glance, but the real question is why is she ranked lower than him?

It also appears that they aren’t going to make any drastic changes regarding Arena 2. Which is fine, but considering they used to stress the endgame so much it seems a bit strange. It should be interesting to see how skill transfer affects their list.

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