Leads
| S |       |
| A+ |          |
| A |              |
Subs
| S |      |
| A+ |               |
| A |             |
It’s been a while since they updated the list and there are plenty of changes to go over.
How the Mighty Have Fallen, Again
I hope people don’t use Shiva’s demotion here as fuel in the Shiva vs. Bastet argument that has been so pervasive since his release on NA (remember, tier lists don’t mean all that much). I personally prefer Bastet — absolutely no bias in that opinion, nope, none at all — but I never actually thought there was much of a gap in their abilities. Unfortunately, Kagutsuchi was a collateral casualty, although I’d agree that he was the most reasonable of the S rank subs to downgrade.
Oh, and the Cloud System was demoted to A+, too. Not that NA cares much about the distinction or whether Cloud is even on the list at all.
New S Rank Leads
I’d assume much of the reason Shiva was bumped down was to make room for these guys on the way up. After all, it’s not much of an S rank if they aren’t extremely selective. Now the question is why they were promoted. I don’t think anyone would have a problem with the One True Dog being here, but what about Infinirog? To be honest, I don’t know. Maybe Summer Claire and Pandora are factors? Maybe the additional love the rater is showing for DIza lately? Satsuki? Whatever the reason, I’m a believer and he’s likely to be my next major team project.
Gadius Demoted
Once again, I’m not entirely sure why Gadius was demoted. This may be an adjustment based on relative value since Typhon has gotten a huge boost. DIza, Akechi, and Summer Pandora have revitalized Typhon teams while Gadius hasn’t gotten much help since he was released.
Goodbye, Helmet Hair
I initially thought she might soon reappear on the list since Awoken Susano is such a great sub, but considering that JP has long has Thief I’m not so sure. What she really needs is Perseus or Michael, or both, to get the same summer treatment as Pandora.
Yandere Love, Again
Izanami climbed the sub ladder again, this time settling at the lofty S rank. While she’s the poster child of elite farmable subs, she’s still a huge outlier. While GungHo has been releasing elite dungeon drops lately, it’s hard to say they’re farmable; at least not in the same spirit Izanami is. Your average late-game team can clear Izanami Descended and farm Dark Bowls for skill ups. The same team has no chance of farming those legend mode dungeons.
The Summer REM is Actually Strong?
Nah, we already knew they were strong, my problem with them was more a question of their value.
While I think Pandora and Urd are ranked correctly, I’m not so sure about the valks. Pandora and Urd deserve their spots because their originals serve as a baseline for their effectiveness, but it’s been a while since a valk was an ideal sub for an elite leader. Claire and Mini Valk certainly have the raw stats to justify their spots, but I’m curious to see what kind of teams they’ll show up on.
Hermes at A+
While Ares’s A+ is quite easy to justify due to his efficacy as a Shiva Dragon sub, Hermes isn’t as straightforward to understand. He’s an extremely good Lakshmi sub even if the whole heartbreaking thing seems counter-intuitive. However, there’s no denying the power of those awakenings. So much so that following up with an Andromeda or both Lakshmi actives is well worth the effort.
Oh, You’re Still Here?
Of all the subs on Game8’s list, GZL least deserved to be on it. It’s nice to see this downgrade after I questioned the grade last time, especially after Verdandi fell off the leader list. While GZL could see some play on Summer GSonia teams, that wasn’t enough to prevent his fall. I expect him to eventually fall of the list quite soon.
Still No Scarlet
Yup. Don’t worry, this is the last time I’ll point this out. I’ve made my peace with her omission.
Did I miss something? Please leave a comment and let me know!
Setsu's PAD Blog 
Zuoh is A rank and also 36x lead. He has a system team available. Gadius is a 36X lead without a system team available. Both suffer from lack of utility slots on their ideal teams. Was Gadius really half a step better than Zuoh?
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That’s a good point. Sadly I know almost nothing about Gadius teams — or fire teams in general — which is why I’m so clueless on the matter.
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I landed a Gadius on an alt account, and it strikes me as limited without very specific subs. I happen to have Yamato Takeru and Uriel on that account, and if they were skilled up I could see the team easily clearing almost anything. Ronia + YT and gadius + uriel make boards so strong even I can do damage with them. I just need to land Mitsuki and/or skill up a Drall and I’m good to go.
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How are you feeling about the 4 TPA on Orochi? I know it’s 4 TPA with a base of 1000 ATT so it’s still weaker than Liu Bei, but only without + eggs. I think I’m more concerned with how much TPA has taken over. I love TPA and all but I feel like 4 is excessive and just open the doors for future 4 TPAs. I know you said they’re going back to rows, but right now I guess they haven’t implemented it yet. Just kinda scared of power creep.
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I’m also really sad my Helmet Goddess got demoted. I love her so much. Poor girl. Do you feel like she is actually in a higher tier in NA compared to Japan? Lakshmi doesn’t have Baggi Cat here in NA which is a premier sub. Would you say Parvati has good ground in NA despite reduction in Japan or would you say it’s expected she got demoted?
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I think Parvati has a natural disadvantage with wood having very poor max HP. Where Lakshmi can hit 30k naturally, Parvati cannot. It also hurts that Perseus and Michael don’t have TPAs. The gap between the two may not be as large as this tier list might suggest, but even without Baggi I believe Lakshmi is superior.
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I’m not impressed with the 4 TPAs for much of the same reasons as you. I am fearful of what implications this would have for power creep, but I guess embracing it is part of the game now.
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Thanks for the replies! You make solid points in Lakshmi vs. Parvati in terms of HP. That is my downfall with Parvati and that Andromeda syncs better with Lakshmi’s row playstyle. Sure wish Perseus got a TPA, but he’s still a good sub. I’m just a little too attached to my Parvati haha 😛
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We need Summer Perseus with 2 TPAs.
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For now I think Awoken Orochi’s 4 TPA are a thematic thing with his 8 heads and I don’t expect to see another card get the same for a while. You also pretty much need 99 attack +eggs to make it worthwhile. It’s really not as big of a deal as it looks like at first.
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I can’t agree with downplaying an issue like this in a game whose life blood is power creep. GungHo will definitely find a way to obsolete the Liu Beis and Kagutsuchis of the world to make you pine for the next best thing. Aside from pushing base ATK, adding more TPAs seems like the next logical step to do so. That’s not to say they won’t find a different way, but the simplest method seems like the most likely.
Also, bringing +eggs into the argument doesn’t really hold much water as non-IAP can farm a +297 in a couple weeks of 3x and a whale can farm several +297s in a few days with 10x.
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Setsu, began reading your stuff for past couple months now, and enjoy your opinions.
Earlier I read you were curious on where the Lvalk can land as in teams wise. I feel she will help a quite a bit for Lkali teams. Im boosting up mine now to throw her in as a sub moment we get her Uvo. also think she gets her God type added which can help for people still using Athena.
The scarlet still not making the list is really annoying. espeically thinking that one of the new Uvo Ares would making powerful. just my thought.
Anyways! enjoying reading the articles and keep it up!
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Thanks, glad you like the blog.
For Mini Valk, I had a decent idea of what teams she could help, but I was mainly wondering if she would be considered an ideal, irreplaceable sub for an elite team. Like on the level of Cao Cao on Shiva or the Kalis on Ra. Either way, she’s clearly one of the best subs in the game and should see a lot of use for a long time to come.
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