Thoughts on the Game8 JP Tier List 8/13/15

Leads

Changes from 7/31: Shiva S→A+, Infinirog A+→S, Gadius A+→A, Summer Pandora debuts at A
Undocumented: Anubis A+→S, Cloud System S→A+, Parvati removed
S 2253 - 破壊神, Shiva Dragon2013 - Awoken Anubis1847 - 黒天の幻龍王・Zaerog∞2012 - Awoken Ra2011 - Awoken Bastet1955 - Awoken Lakshmi
A+ 1954 - Awoken Shiva1747 - Sparkling Goddess of Secrets, Kali1937 - 最強戦士・超ベジット1901 - 最強装備, Juggler2230 - 気狂いピエロ, Kite2030 - Cloud & ハーディ=デイトナ2226 - 制約と誓約, Gon Freecss1949 - Lightning Black Dragonbound, Typhon1951 - Tome-Creating White Phantom Demon, Ilm
A 1947 - Lightning Red Dragonbound, Gadius1736 - Wailing Bleak Night Goddess, Pandora2292 - 冥夜の令嬢, Pandora1953 - Enraged Black Phantom Demon, Zuoh1664 - God of Dark Riches, Osiris1674 - Norn of the Future, Skuld2227 - 神速, Killua Zoldyck1645 - Marvelous Red Dragon Caller, Sonia1371 - Crazed King of Purgatory, Beelzebub1666 - Sacred Life Goddess, Hathor2009 - Awoken Horus1760 - Dawning Dragon Caller, Sonia Gran2080 - 知徳の麗女神, Sarasvati

Subs

Changes from 7/31: Dark Izanami A+→S, Kagutsuchi S→A+, Summer Claire debuts at A+, Mini LValk added to A+, Hermes added to A+, Summer Pandora debuts at A+, Summer Urd debuts at A+, GZL A+→A
S 2078 - 劫火の威女神, Kali1747 - Sparkling Goddess of Secrets, Kali1743 - Restrained Dragon Hero, Liu Bei2180 - 平定の黄泉神, Izanami859 - ドスバギィ&バギィネコ1738 - 覇征の龍武王, Cao Cao
A+ 1726 - Awoken Hinokagutsuchi2290 - 雪白の美姫, Valkyrie Claire1785 - warrior rose, graceful valkyrie2010 - Awoken Isis1557 - Dancing Flame, Amaterasu Ohkami1561 - 超サイヤ人第三段階・トランクス1926 - Heaven-Shaking Thunderdragon, Indra2148 - 早天の日龍喚士, Kanna2235 - 復仇の戦軍神, Ares2236 - 還魂の商業神, Hermes2292 - 冥夜の令嬢, Pandora1733 - Blue Chain Starsea Goddess, Andromeda1736 - Wailing Bleak Night Goddess, Pandora2289 - 楽園の時女神, Urd1670 - Norn of the Past, Urd1674 - Norn of the Future, Skuld1672 - Norn of the Present, Verdandi
A 2076 - Awoken Haku1947 - Lightning Red Dragonbound, Gadius1953 - Enraged Black Phantom Demon, Zuoh2146 - 金風の碧龍喚士, Kaede1734 - Green Star Vanquishing Deity, Perseus2081 - Divine Creator of Order, Vishnu2075 - Awoken Meimei2238 - 渾天の光明神, Apollo2269 - 克明の諜報神, Ishida Mitsunari2273 - 深慮の謀略神, Akechi Mitsuhide1373 - Genius Sleeping Dragon, Zhuge Liang2094 - Phoenix Rider Valen1887 - 幸七羽毛・ヘッドロココ1741 - Soaring Dragon General, Sun Quan

The Game8 list.

It’s been a while since they updated the list and there are plenty of changes to go over.

How the Mighty Have Fallen, Again

1954 - Awoken Shiva2030 - Cloud & ハーディ=デイトナ1726 - Awoken Hinokagutsuchi
I hope people don’t use Shiva’s demotion here as fuel in the Shiva vs. Bastet argument that has been so pervasive since his release on NA (remember, tier lists don’t mean all that much). I personally prefer Bastet — absolutely no bias in that opinion, nope, none at all — but I never actually thought there was much of a gap in their abilities. Unfortunately, Kagutsuchi was a collateral casualty, although I’d agree that he was the most reasonable of the S rank subs to downgrade.

Oh, and the Cloud System was demoted to A+, too. Not that NA cares much about the distinction or whether Cloud is even on the list at all.

New S Rank Leads

2013 - Awoken Anubis1847 - 黒天の幻龍王・Zaerog∞
I’d assume much of the reason Shiva was bumped down was to make room for these guys on the way up. After all, it’s not much of an S rank if they aren’t extremely selective. Now the question is why they were promoted. I don’t think anyone would have a problem with the One True Dog being here, but what about Infinirog? To be honest, I don’t know. Maybe Summer Claire and Pandora are factors? Maybe the additional love the rater is showing for DIza lately? Satsuki? Whatever the reason, I’m a believer and he’s likely to be my next major team project.

Gadius Demoted

1947 - Lightning Red Dragonbound, Gadius
Once again, I’m not entirely sure why Gadius was demoted. This may be an adjustment based on relative value since Typhon has gotten a huge boost. DIza, Akechi, and Summer Pandora have revitalized Typhon teams while Gadius hasn’t gotten much help since he was released.

Goodbye, Helmet Hair

1956 - Awoken Parvati
I initially thought she might soon reappear on the list since Awoken Susano is such a great sub, but considering that JP has long has Thief I’m not so sure. What she really needs is Perseus or Michael, or both, to get the same summer treatment as Pandora.

Yandere Love, Again

2180 - 平定の黄泉神, Izanami
Izanami climbed the sub ladder again, this time settling at the lofty S rank. While she’s the poster child of elite farmable subs, she’s still a huge outlier. While GungHo has been releasing elite dungeon drops lately, it’s hard to say they’re farmable; at least not in the same spirit Izanami is. Your average late-game team can clear Izanami Descended and farm Dark Bowls for skill ups. The same team has no chance of farming those legend mode dungeons.

The Summer REM is Actually Strong?

2290 - 雪白の美姫, Valkyrie Claire1785 - warrior rose, graceful valkyrie2292 - 冥夜の令嬢, Pandora2289 - 楽園の時女神, Urd
Nah, we already knew they were strong, my problem with them was more a question of their value.

While I think Pandora and Urd are ranked correctly, I’m not so sure about the valks. Pandora and Urd deserve their spots because their originals serve as a baseline for their effectiveness, but it’s been a while since a valk was an ideal sub for an elite leader. Claire and Mini Valk certainly have the raw stats to justify their spots, but I’m curious to see what kind of teams they’ll show up on.

Hermes at A+

2236 - 還魂の商業神, Hermes
While Ares’s A+ is quite easy to justify due to his efficacy as a Shiva Dragon sub, Hermes isn’t as straightforward to understand. He’s an extremely good Lakshmi sub even if the whole heartbreaking thing seems counter-intuitive. However, there’s no denying the power of those awakenings. So much so that following up with an Andromeda or both Lakshmi actives is well worth the effort.

Oh, You’re Still Here?

1373 - Genius Sleeping Dragon, Zhuge Liang
Of all the subs on Game8’s list, GZL least deserved to be on it. It’s nice to see this downgrade after I questioned the grade last time, especially after Verdandi fell off the leader list. While GZL could see some play on Summer GSonia teams, that wasn’t enough to prevent his fall. I expect him to eventually fall of the list quite soon.

Still No Scarlet

2206 - 闊達の灼冥魔, Scarlet
Yup. Don’t worry, this is the last time I’ll point this out. I’ve made my peace with her omission.


Did I miss something? Please leave a comment and let me know!

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13 thoughts on “Thoughts on the Game8 JP Tier List 8/13/15

  1. Zuoh is A rank and also 36x lead. He has a system team available. Gadius is a 36X lead without a system team available. Both suffer from lack of utility slots on their ideal teams. Was Gadius really half a step better than Zuoh?

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    • That’s a good point. Sadly I know almost nothing about Gadius teams — or fire teams in general — which is why I’m so clueless on the matter.

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      • I landed a Gadius on an alt account, and it strikes me as limited without very specific subs. I happen to have Yamato Takeru and Uriel on that account, and if they were skilled up I could see the team easily clearing almost anything. Ronia + YT and gadius + uriel make boards so strong even I can do damage with them. I just need to land Mitsuki and/or skill up a Drall and I’m good to go.

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  2. How are you feeling about the 4 TPA on Orochi? I know it’s 4 TPA with a base of 1000 ATT so it’s still weaker than Liu Bei, but only without + eggs. I think I’m more concerned with how much TPA has taken over. I love TPA and all but I feel like 4 is excessive and just open the doors for future 4 TPAs. I know you said they’re going back to rows, but right now I guess they haven’t implemented it yet. Just kinda scared of power creep.

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    • I’m also really sad my Helmet Goddess got demoted. I love her so much. Poor girl. Do you feel like she is actually in a higher tier in NA compared to Japan? Lakshmi doesn’t have Baggi Cat here in NA which is a premier sub. Would you say Parvati has good ground in NA despite reduction in Japan or would you say it’s expected she got demoted?

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      • I think Parvati has a natural disadvantage with wood having very poor max HP. Where Lakshmi can hit 30k naturally, Parvati cannot. It also hurts that Perseus and Michael don’t have TPAs. The gap between the two may not be as large as this tier list might suggest, but even without Baggi I believe Lakshmi is superior.

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    • I’m not impressed with the 4 TPAs for much of the same reasons as you. I am fearful of what implications this would have for power creep, but I guess embracing it is part of the game now.

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      • Thanks for the replies! You make solid points in Lakshmi vs. Parvati in terms of HP. That is my downfall with Parvati and that Andromeda syncs better with Lakshmi’s row playstyle. Sure wish Perseus got a TPA, but he’s still a good sub. I’m just a little too attached to my Parvati haha 😛

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      • For now I think Awoken Orochi’s 4 TPA are a thematic thing with his 8 heads and I don’t expect to see another card get the same for a while. You also pretty much need 99 attack +eggs to make it worthwhile. It’s really not as big of a deal as it looks like at first.

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        • I can’t agree with downplaying an issue like this in a game whose life blood is power creep. GungHo will definitely find a way to obsolete the Liu Beis and Kagutsuchis of the world to make you pine for the next best thing. Aside from pushing base ATK, adding more TPAs seems like the next logical step to do so. That’s not to say they won’t find a different way, but the simplest method seems like the most likely.

          Also, bringing +eggs into the argument doesn’t really hold much water as non-IAP can farm a +297 in a couple weeks of 3x and a whale can farm several +297s in a few days with 10x.

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  3. Setsu, began reading your stuff for past couple months now, and enjoy your opinions.

    Earlier I read you were curious on where the Lvalk can land as in teams wise. I feel she will help a quite a bit for Lkali teams. Im boosting up mine now to throw her in as a sub moment we get her Uvo. also think she gets her God type added which can help for people still using Athena.

    The scarlet still not making the list is really annoying. espeically thinking that one of the new Uvo Ares would making powerful. just my thought.

    Anyways! enjoying reading the articles and keep it up!

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    • Thanks, glad you like the blog.

      For Mini Valk, I had a decent idea of what teams she could help, but I was mainly wondering if she would be considered an ideal, irreplaceable sub for an elite team. Like on the level of Cao Cao on Shiva or the Kalis on Ra. Either way, she’s clearly one of the best subs in the game and should see a lot of use for a long time to come.

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